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Seminole
Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 644
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 Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I still run the GW mod and I would surely demand that it and any other mod be in WinZip format.....provided I were paying for them....but since they are free....I figure beggars can't be choosers...so I gladly comply with whatever the person(s) doing all that free work for my benefit asks me to....which includeds using Winrar or any of the others.
I could demand the Winzip expand to include the ability to handle all other files types....but hey I didn't pay for that either...  |
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Manock
Joined: 07 Jul 2002
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Well Thank You Saint Seminole!
I guess I am the only one except for that one wise german fellow who does not like uneeded programs screwing around with my operating system.
Oh - I could just hate myself sometimes. So self serving. So pretentious. So darned ungrateful.
I am scum.
I am below scum
I am what scum feeds on.
I hate myself
Sigh. |
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Sailor Steve
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 5433
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Manock wrote: | I am scum.
I am below scum
I am what scum feeds on.
I hate myself
Sigh. |
I thought that was me!  |
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Gizzmoe
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 3011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Manock wrote: | | Oh - I could just hate myself sometimes. So self serving. So pretentious. So darned ungrateful. |
And so computer-illiterate... 
Compression algorithms evolve, there are many formely famous and widely-used compression programs that are now extinct, like ARC, ARJ, LHARC, ZOO and Compress. There always was a period of whining when something better came out, but slowly but surely people got used to the new software.
As JScones wrote in his first post: Better algorithms = smaller filesize = faster uploads and downloads. And less costs for file hosts, providers and Internet users without a flatrate.
My guestimate is that if everyone knew how to correctly use file compression, be it for "normal" files, or image, sound and video files, there would be at least 30% less Internet traffic. |
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VonHelsching
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 666
Location: Athens, Greece
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| GlobalExplorer wrote: | | I think if files are small and bandwith paid, only a fool uses formats like 7z or RAR, because it scares off many people. |
GE, my fixes are 5-50 KB and I use .7z (have never thought about it actually - the icon it's just nicer than the .zip). Shall I whip myself publicly to repent for my sin?  |
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GlobalExplorer
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 234
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:39 am Post subject: |
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It's not only about better compression algorithms and such.
Do we start all talking "Newspeak" or Esperanto because they are so much better and logical? No. We speak English, because it's the language everyone in the world knows. If we'd started to talk Chinese all of a sudden a lot of you guys would be damn pissed off.
Thats the same with programs. A lot of people will prefer to download or use files that are in zip format. Period. It's not the question whether these people are smart. They just have learned to use their tools and don't want to spent a lot of time starting over and over.
If you can live with some people not downloading your stuff and bandwidth is expensive, use 7z. Otherwise I'd say screw bandwidth. Some of you sound like conserving bandwidth is some god-like activity like protecting the environment. When I was at the university there were people producing more traffic on one day than most of us here in a year.
Lastly, never underestimate the power of the user!
| VonHelsching wrote: | | GlobalExplorer wrote: | | I think if files are small and bandwith paid, only a fool uses formats like 7z or RAR, because it scares off many people. |
GE, my fixes are 5-50 KB and I use .7z (have never thought about it actually - the icon it's just nicer than the .zip). Shall I whip myself publicly to repent for my sin? |
He gets 5 slashes on the naked butt, and the 7z icon scratched on the forehead. |
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Gizzmoe
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 3011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| GlobalExplorer wrote: | Do we start all talking "Newspeak" or Esperanto because they are so much better and logical? No. We speak English, because it's the language everyone in the world knows. If we'd started to talk Chinese all of a sudden a lot of you guys would be damn pissed off.
Thats the same with programs. A lot of people will prefer to download or use files that are in zip format. Period. It's not the question whether these people are smart. They just have learned to use their tools and don't want to spent a lot of time starting over and over. |
That´s a very bad analogy. Learning and mastering a language is a long process, learning how to use a compression software is a matter of a few minutes if you have used such programs before. It´s no rocket science... Especially just unpacking files is basically a no-brainer!
| Quote: | | Some of you sound like conserving bandwidth is some god-like activity like protecting the environment. |
Bandwidth is a common good and doesn´t come for free, actually it´s quite expensive. It´s very often possible to make an archive 30-70% smaller by simply using advanced compression software and it´s no more work than using software with inferior algorithms. |
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Seminole
Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 644
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Manock wrote: | Well Thank You Saint Seminole!
I guess I am the only one except for that one wise german fellow who does not like uneeded programs screwing around with my operating system.
Oh - I could just hate myself sometimes. So self serving. So pretentious. So darned ungrateful.
I am scum.
I am below scum
I am what scum feeds on.
I hate myself
Sigh. |
Er...it isn't at all a question of morality but rather a matter of logic,rationality,old fashion common sense plus a firm grasp on reality. |
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Sailor Steve
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 5433
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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When I tried to download Grey Wolves some of the six separate files took longer than my hour at the library would allow.
From Terrapin's site the whole thing was compressed to 80 MB. I downloaded the complete package in 10 minutes. |
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Seminole
Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 644
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Sailor Steve wrote: | When I tried to download Grey Wolves some of the six separate files took longer than my hour at the library would allow.
From Terrapin's site the whole thing was compressed to 80 MB. I downloaded the complete package in 10 minutes. |
Where did you find that on the site ? Do you mean he now has all six files in a single downloadable package? That would be great.
I downloaded the six separate GW files from Terrapin's site and it took the better part of an half hour to get them all....but that was a while back. |
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JScones
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 1129
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| GlobalExplorer wrote: | | Thats the same with programs. A lot of people will prefer to download or use files that are in zip format. Period. It's not the question whether these people are smart. They just have learned to use their tools and don't want to spent a lot of time starting over and over. |
And these people put themselves into an environment which endures constant change? Gee, perhaps if these people had their way we'd still all be using DOS? Or...maybe if we're lucky...Windows 3.1? A bit extreme, but you get the point.
| GlobalExplorer wrote: | If you can live with some people not downloading your stuff and bandwidth is expensive, use 7z. Otherwise I'd say screw bandwidth. Some of you sound like conserving bandwidth is some god-like activity like protecting the environment. When I was at the university there were people producing more traffic on one day than most of us here in a year.
Lastly, never underestimate the power of the user! |
Excluding professional packages, I use zip or self extracting exe files for all my smaller stuff, like less than 8mb or so. Anything over gets the 7z treatment. And I make no apologies for it. I have limited space and I don't like getting hit with the over-quota fees, just to appease a minority of users. If they feel intimidated by 7z format, then they miss out.
Anyway, just something to ponder...
uncompressed GW1.0 = 1640MB
ZIP max compressed GW1.0 = 966MB (59% of original filesize)
7z max compressed GW1.0 = 630MB (38% of original filesize and 35% better than ZIP). And coincidently, a perfect size to archive away on a CD.
Now, considering the "weakest links" in the chain...
On the one hand:
-people with slow connections (either dialup or broadband)
-people with download limits
-people with time limits
-hosters with modest server sizes (or those that want to maximise their server space)
On the other hand:
-people that don't like progressive technology (which, ironically is the world in which we live)
Hmmm... I know which people I'd rather appease... |
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