Thanks alot, Israel...

*[FOX]* Bort · Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 430 Location: Chicago

Israel likely has no greater friend than the United States, yet they were more than willing to export the design of the Lavi, a cancelled Israeli fighter funded by US bucks to the Chinese. Their new J-10 looks and performs an awful lot like the Lavi. Oh, Israel... Rolling Eyes

The story:http://atimes.com/atimes/China/DL04Ad01.html

The Lavi

The J-10

Ducimus · Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 831

Looks like an F16. Rolling Eyes

TteFAboB · Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 649

I hope there's a secret transponder built-in, so well hidden not even Israelis would be able to find it if they wanted to, and a remote satellite pilot ejection device, besides from the usual self-destruction system, just in case the ejector seat fails.

Because that's what the Chinese put inside the industrial goods they export to us, you know.

bradclark1 · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Posts: 1007 Location: Connecticut, USA.

Clinton gives them missile technology, Israel gives them Jet Fighters. Gee, nothing like shooting yourself in the head!!!!

scandium · Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 350

Ducimus · Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 831

lesrae · Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 340 Location: Somerset, UK.

Ducimus · Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 831

Im not saying it IS an F16, only it looks like one, obviously VERY closely related to one,and derived from F16 technology aquired from the US. THey may as well have given china an F16 for all intents and purposes.

The only MAJOR visible difference between the two planes from the pics above is the front winglet on isreals version.

Happy Times · Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 604 Location: Finland

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j10.asp

TLAM Strike · Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject:

No worries we got the 100 mile range AIM-54 Phoenixes to deal with them before they are even in our area... Oh wait... Sh!t! Damn

*[FOX]* Bort · Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 430 Location: Chicago

SUBMAN1 · Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 1458

kiwi_2005 · Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 1286 Location: New Zealand

They sold it to the chinese?!? Money the root of all evil Wink

Oh well NZ sold there airforce altogether! :nope:

DeepSix · Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 802 Location: DB22

To go out on what I am sure will be a controversial limb (although not for the sake of stirring any up, though): I don't like the idea of selling military tech to the Chinese either; however, as others have pointed out, it's an F-16 in shape and wing, but not necessarily in other ways. Even if it does not use the fuel hungry Russian engines, it still lacks the range of new birds like the F/A-22, which can cruise at supersonic speed.

A lot of how you look at this depends on how you look at air doctrine. The U.S. seems to be moving back toward the tactical bomber role after the last couple decades of favoring air superiority (they sneak in the "A" in the model number; I think even the F-117 was originally conceived as a "B-x" or "A-x" plane). I'm not saying one doctrine's better than another, just that the U.S. seems to go in cycles. In the late 50s and early 60s it was all about higher and faster, then it evolved into favoring maneuver. The F(A)-22 may or may not be the ultimate fighter, but IMO the U.S. is still setting the pace in terms of R&D. Selling the J-10 *may* not be giving away as much as we think.

Just my opinion.

Abraham · Joined: 31 Dec 2004 Posts: 3313 Location: Amsterdam Holland

Although there are certainly similarities between the F 16 and the Lavi, it still is a completely new all-Israeli design, using some of the F 16 innovative features. If you realise that the F 16 is a mid-wing plane and the Lavi a low-wing plane, you'll appreciate that the fuselage construction is completely different.
The Lavi has capabilities comparable to the F 16C.

The Lavi had a very checkred history, being an Israeli prestige object, funded by US Dollars and intended to be independant of the US aircraft industry (and to compete with the US industry in Latin America!).
The US got fed up with the Israeli attitude (basically demanding a $ 500 M per year grant over the develloping period!) during the years long Lavi negotiations and found that Isreal's security interest was better served by buying cheaper F 16's and ordering 3 submarines in Germany. This was consequently decided.

Obviously Israel found a new possibility to recoup some money out of the failed project.

P.S. I once (I think in 2000) saw the only prototype when I was leaving Ben Gurion airport; painted white, beautifull plane.

For an inside look into this US-Israeli political crisis, read: "Flight of the Lavi" by Dov S. Zakheim (Brassey's Inc. ISBN 1-57488-065-9).