[tycho102]

[TLAM Strike]

[Fish]

Don't we share 90 % of our genes with worms? :hmm:

[Spoon 11th]

[TLAM Strike]

[Abraham]

[Polak]

[Skybird]

[Polak]

[Happy Times]

[Abraham]

First: this thread is seriously off topic.

Second: Skybird should take that cold beer and not be so pessimistic about the "clash of cultures" with Islam.

Third: we should all stop generalising Muslims and Islam.

In my opinion the "clash of cultures" is more a clash between Western - if not global - modernity - which by the way includes millions of self-proclaimed Muslims - and Medieval backwardness, which includes people of all religions, including - yes - many fundamental Muslims.
And the clash is about this:
The Muslim world is not really doing well, to put things mildly. It is characterized by corrupt undemocratic regimes, low levels of education, inequality between the sexes, lack of freedom and - in general - a poor economy that shows no steady growth.
When Muslims come to Europe they find - in general - a modern, highly develloped, democratic society, with constitutional rights for all its citizens, equality between sexes, freedom of religion, which shows compassion for the poor, the sick and the old.

That is the cultural shock and it's for them to cope with it.
Most recognise our society and our Western values as superior and support their new society, in order to profit from its rights and freedom. A minority doesn't. They do have a problem. But that is certainly not a problem of the whole Muslim community, but of a small and uncertain minority that has been shocked and made uncertain by the difference between the Muslim world and modernity.

Let's please keep our liberal society intact. Its the strongest weapon in a fight that we don't want, but fundamental Islam needs in order not to go down.
Instead of "fighting" the Muslim community we should actively support those Muslims, that integrate and accept our cultural values. We should show Muslims that thát's the way to reach a better future here in the West...

I believe Islam will have to revive and modernise within 10 or 20 years or become (again) the backward religion of the economical and cultural backward region of the world.
I bet Islam will lose 90% of its support in the West within a generation if it doesn't.
And I see more and more opposition from within the Muslim community itself against fundamentalists.
That's what's happening in Holland at least...

Let's be on guard, not against Muslims in general, but against Muslims that don't accept our culture and our values.

In the mean time we should all have a beer and chill out. )1:

[Skybird]

That is exactly the attitude of Europe and Germany since several decades.

Islam has turned stronger, has revived it'S ambitions to become a more powerful player in the West, and has set up mutiple times as many players in Western countries since then. exactly because of this attitude and argumentation.

Obviously this does not tell you anything.

Islam sees itself as the end, as the fulfillment of all history there is. You talk of 20 years, or a generation, in an optimistic way beyond reason, in ignorration of over oinethousand years of history. I must not hesitate a second to know whom of you two will have the longer breath.

But I award you the EU medal for good intentions.

[Abraham]

[Skybird]

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub501F42F1AA064C4CB17DF1C38AC00196/Doc~E5D5ACCF2AEA347339F61E5271E32202A~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

A big story in Germany currently. Once again, it's not the first time. We had several of such incidents in Germany in recent years.

these attempts to challenge German cultural habits and values are not coincidental, but are systematical efforts to make them give ground. They receive all support needed by Islamic groups and organizations. Fees for lawyers for example are paid by them. Socalled moderate Muslims are remarkably quite about such things. A small - a very small demo here, some halöf-heartly press conference there - but no active deeds, no binding self-obligation to deal with these "extremists" by themselves. I still wait for Muslim communities to fully cooperate with police and Verfassungsschutz when it comes to terror-suspects hiding in the middle of their communities. "They are Muslims", is their excuse if reduced to the essence of defending statements.

we have a saying here: "mitgefangen, mitgehangen", if the dictionary is right it compares to "fly with the crows, get shot with the crows." One who knows that aggressive propagators or criminal offenders or terrorists are hiding under his name and does not take active measures to get rid of these, cooperating with those who are after these retarded breeds, is as suspicious and guilty as those he indirectly protects.

Such things like with the two burka-wearing girls happen on a regular basis in Germany now - fundamentalists who want to enforce their entrance into public service, especially eduaction and schools, gaining influental püositions were they can heolp the spreading and implementing of islamic culture and laws (!) in the state, and in the society. It is a silent invasion by a hostile culture aiming at conquering ours and deleting it, a soundless war going on. It is about wearing-out resistance of public opinion agai8nst Islam. It'S abolut raising misleading impressions on how harmless and peaceloving and tolerant Islam is. It's the systematical testing of how far they can go (usually each time a little bit farther). Usually it can be proven that the financial support fto bring such cases to the courts is coming fromIslmic organisation, in this time the very subversive King-Fahd-Academy in Germany which is under close observation of the Verfassungsschutz (they want to close it down, but politicians do not listen to their experts...). at least one of the two families has close connections to this hostile institution that is enemy to our constitution (it should be closed and destroyed, imo).

you agree on the superiority of the Western heritage, but that perceived superiority makes you lull and dull - you think you are so superior that you can tame Islam. I tell you, you can't. The Western culture is hollowing out itself from within (materialism, oligarchy-building, oil-dependence, heavy lobbying). This is what makes us not strong enough to tame Islam, but what makes us more and more vulnerable to Islam. In Europe Islam has grown in influence and power and acceptance since decades, there can be no serious doubt about it. It is irresponsible to claim that in Europe Islam is weakening and desperate, as you put it. It has secured the initiave as a matter of fact, and more and more authorities of Europe are giving ground to them.

Look at Turkey. People considered Fundamental Islam to be gone there. now it is back again, stronger than before since WWII. fundamntal Islam ids forming it'S government. No way I would conclude that Attaturk was successful. He was too tame. Think of that - Attaturk - too tame...?

You are a very dangerous man due to your naivity, Abraham, and you even do not realize it and declare it a cultural or political virtue. That is if someone has fought against a pneumonia, and a flu, and a sopring headache, and concludes by that that his immune system is strong enough to cope with Ebola. But our constitutional orders are almost defenseless against the Islamic combination of religion and politics.

there is only one Islam - that has always been, since 14 centuries, the fighting, expanding, aggressive, non-coexisting and intolerant Islam. That's what it is, and nothing else. It has brought mankind more violence and war and military conquest than any ideology, and empire, and religion, any culture. It's the mindset of a predatory, murderish, greedy beduin with an inflationary ego. Keep that in mind, and also that you undertake a timewarp of over thousand years each time you deal with it.

You are to well-meaning, Abraham. and this is what makes you a threat to your own people: you think reason will sort this thing out, maybe becasue you are a lawyer and depend on words and rules being followed.

But what role played reason in the medieval...??? This is a cultural war going on, nothing else. And we are loosing, thanks to active help of well-meaning Westerners like you. We do need people here that are willing to take a risk in making a clear stand, that draw a clear line in the sand and tell Islam: "Until here - and not one da,n inch beyond, else I flatten you withoiut further warning." That is proven to be the only thing that Islam ever has understood throughout it's history, and brought it's expansion to a halt: overwhelming opposing power and superiority, and rejection of compromise.

[Iceman]

ummm....I love them damn dirty apes....lmao....