[Aismov]

So it is Dec. 1944 and I'm on a long distance patrol in the Carribean in my IXC when I pick up a enemy task force of DD escorts and a small carrier. I managed to sneak in and sink the escort carrier, but then the problem started. No matter what I do, how many decoys I use, how deep I dive, how silent I run I simply cannot shake this one DD.

I did a forum search and from what I was able to read I guess DD escorts get insanely capable at detecting and DCing you in 1944. I tested this by using the outside camera and noticed that even at 200+ meters with the escort just behind me if I go hard port/starboard the escort somehow knows immedialty which way my boat is turning and will follow my movements and DC me with insane depth accuracy.


Any tips on how to avoid these guys? Its getting a bit silly that they can detect me when I am silent running @ 220m and have deployed a semi-circle of sonar decoys. Oh I am also playing the Vanilla version of the game modded only with a few "eye candy" mods (wake mod, harbor mod and smoke mod).

[BigBadVuk]

Just 1 tip:Dont be detected....

[Tonnage_Ace]

my advice is too download and install the GW mod and it's patch to version 1.1. It limits the amount of uber destroyers patrolling the seas by limiting the ones with experienced crews. Much more realistic in that most of the destroyers lurking out there will only have newby or standard crews manning the boat. SH3 Commander 2.5 is also a good alternative as it has random thermal layers, where you can hide in them if you can find out what depth they are located at. Every subsequent patrol, the depth that the thermal layer is located in will change.

My other recomendation is that going at silent running only sets the speed at ahead slow, or 3 knots. You need to go slower than that to escape silently, move at 1 knot and you'll notice a difference, even with a largely stock game.

[VonHelsching]

[Tonnage_Ace]

Hey VonHelsching, can you use the Unified Campaign with the updated 1.1 version of GW? I mean if I enable the mods like so:

GW ver 1.0
Gw ver 1.1
Unified Campaign for GW

[Keelbuster]

[Aismov]

I haven't loaded up my save again but I think I'll first give the 1 kt escape idea a shot with slight depth and course adjustments and see if that helps. Not sure since the guy is pinging me like crazy and he seems to not fall for even multiple decoys.
If that fails I know I just happen to have one seeker torpedo in (aft) Tube 5 so I'm thinking I might try a quick surface and then crashdive back down and remain at flank so escort is forced to keep speed up and hopefully the seeker will at least disable him.

Thanks for all the help!

[VonHelsching]

[Aismov]

Hmm... so I gave pretty much everything a shot and no dice. Its actually a bit silly. I drop decoys and try to shake DDs by drifting slowly at 1kt, always turning on to slow for a few seconds to get back to 1 kt and then shut off again for silent running and these guys are still able to drop DC's right on my head. I looked a bit with the external camera and even when I had my engines off (and had decoys in the area) they would launch DC only where my sub exactly was.


Call me crazy but this is getting absurd. If they DC'ed the general area I wouldn't mind the challenge but this is pushing it when they will shoot a tight grouping of DCs within 1-2m of my silent/slow sub (that is 230m below!). I have all the latest anti-sonar coatings and the best decoys and still these guys are hot on my tail. Is there anything special I am not doing?

[Keelbuster]

Here's the thing - in clear weather, with escorts that have decent active ASDIC (>1942), you can't escape silently. Silence doesn't really matter, nor does depth. It's distance. You could turn all your engines off and sit at max depth, and they'll just ping-triangulate you. You have to get out of the area. Wait until an attack run, preferrably where both (or all) of your attackers are moving quickly (a stopped one will try to pick you up on passive) and then floor it. In emergencies, I would use the full 20 seconds on flank, with a bearing change, and drop a decoy. You need to get outside of their active cone. You want to put (ideally) 800m-1km between you and them. Otherwise they'll just pick you up again on active and you have to try again. Also, when I'm going flank, I'll often drop back to ahead standard for an additional few seconds, just to maintain the 6kts, and then down to ahead 1/3 for another five seconds, and then back to silent. During this run, you can do any repairs you need to do. In my exp. distance is the only hope.

The silence thing only works in really rough weather - high seas. This can really disguise yer sub, and their asdic returns are much less effective. In late war (44/45), I decided that I would only attack in rough weather - glassy/still ocean is a death trap.

Kb

[Keelbuster]

Oh - one other thing - decoys only work when they are somewhere that you are NOT. So, if you drop a decoy at 1kts, you'll be right beside it for a long time. That just means that your sonar profile is now twice as big as it was before. Only drop decoys at flank. And, I've found that you want to drop them after you get going - DDs will attack your last position and circle around. If you drop a decoy right before you go flank, they might not see -it - they will turn to face your noise trace, and may have the decoy in their baffles. So, during that 10-20 second dash, drop the decoy about 5 or 10 seconds into it. Keep running at flank. They'll come after you and start pinging. When you think you've put a few hundred meters between you and the decoy, drop to 1/3 and silence the crew. With any luck, the decoy will be between you and them, and it will be blaring in their ASDIC scan and they won't be able to resist a DC run on it. When this happens, repeat this strategy and you should be able to strip off all the escorts and put 2km of safety space between you and them. Then it's off to silence - between 1.5 and 2km, I think you're almost out of their active window (depending on sea-state), and _then_ it pays to go silent.

[Keelbuster]

Finally - one last thing (it's a sensitive topic for me - i lost my last 3 boats to DC attack): Even when you're out of range of active asdic (2km or so), you don't want to go 1kts. It's too slow. You want distance. In fact, at 2km, I might go up to 1/3 and pull 5kts. Then you're certain to clear em. The reason I do this is that I think (but can't actually verify) that some escorts use an expanding-circle search pattern. So, when they lose you, they do a circle with a 1km radius, followed by one with a 2km radius, and so on. So, even if you skip the first pass, they may surprise you with the second and then yer right back in the heat again. I do a lot of my evasion at 1/3 rather than slow. I'd never do 1kts - the only time i go for real silence is when approaching a convoy, and the escorts aren't suspicious (i.e. snake-searching), and they sail right past me. At that point I go all-schtop, silence, and pucker-up.

(phew)

kb

[tycho102]

The issue here is the destroyer's active sonar range needs to be increased from stock. The game shipped with a 0m range. IRL, it was 200-400m. That alone will balance the 1944-1945 game back to a
playable level.

Increasing the minimum radar detection height is another one of those absolutely necessary "tweaks" to the stock game. The snorkel wasn't *that* visible. :doh:

I think it was foolish for Ubisoft to balance the gameplay with "uber" escorts. That was an extraordinarily poor decision, and I suspect it was only implemented due to time constraints (like so many other things in the game ).

[Aismov]

Well I used keelbuster's tips and it worked like a charm. A bit counterintuitive to escape by making tons of noise at flank but it worked!

[VonHelsching]