[GreyOctober]

Hallo Herr Kaleuns!

Happy to be here. Im quite new to the genre as ive been playing SHIII for 2 weeks now...so you can say im a noob (DONT SAY IT! ). Well since i got it, i started installing mods found on subsim, and felt pretty happy with Rub1.45 as i felt it made it uber realistic. Just found out that i can go to the next level, meaning NYGM and GW. You see, im a realism guy, and i need every detail to be historically accurate and the representation of various sistems correct. Ive been reading the mod forums for hours and i still have some things that need to be clariffied. So far i made a quick list of must haves...NYGM, GW and bordinstrumente (have a few more but dont present a problem).

Anyway, the BIG question is: WHICH IS THE BEST to have (realism wise). I understand that you can merge both GW and NYGM (how?). Note: i fully read the readmes of both and understood how each one of the affects the gameplay.

Which mod to enable first (is it best to mod NYGM with GW or vice-versa?).

Are there any other adjustements that have to be made manually in order to get the two working?

Unified campaign. The readme in the forums confused me further as it presented me with 3 or 4 download versions (which one?)

Any other recommended mods to go with NYGM+GW?

Ah damn...i read what i said above and i realised i didnt make much sense

Almost forgot: where can i find tips about torpedo attacks (positioning, attacking various spots on the ship etc).

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to help me out. Great comunity btw

GreyOctober

[jcwolf]

I'll try to clarify a litlle a bit bro...


There are in this moment 3 major mods bro, Grey Wolves, NYGM, IUB...

You've got to chose from one of those...

Example:

You chose Grey Wolves (GW)
Download topic
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50034

After you enable the mod You have to download the recent patch update from GW...
Here
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=51468

Then lets say you whant the merged campaign from NYGM, you download the Unified Campaigne GW
Here
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50377

===================================

This was the main 3 mods for operating the GW version with the
NYGM Campaigne included, the rest is a question of adding optional mods that are usually marked with the name off the modd they are for...but that will be your choice...mate

hope this helps somehow bro...

[GreyOctober]

Much appreciated JC. I have a clearer picture now. Thank you sir

GreyOctober

[Beery]

Don't give up on RUb. It's still a major mod. I wouldn't say there were three major mods. There are at least four. RUb is as much a player as any of the others, and it still has features that the others don't have (RUb has some realistic but unpopular mods that I'm fairly sure the others will be missing because RUb is not geared for casual players - i.e. the deck gun reload time and the fatigue mod). RUb, when used in conjunction with SH3 Commander) also has its own milk cow mod, less flashy than the others but just as realistic in terms of its effect, and it's easier to use, and without the problems inherent in placing an invisible port at sea (which is how the other milk cow mod works). This is, in my opinion, the biggest drawback of all other mods that incorporate milk cows.

Also, I've found that some other mods have tended to go for style over substance to some extent, with excitement being a major consideration at the expense of true realism. RUb also has a lot of historical campaigns in it - boats get sent to the US coast in early-mid 1942, the invasion of Norway is featured, etc., etc. We also spent a lot of time balancing the game so that it's more realistic in terms of survivability and balancing the probabilities of being sunk by ships/aircraft, etc. I doubt that any other mod has given much thought to these realism aspects of the game. There's nothing outdated in it, and I reckon it's still the most realistic mod (but then I would, wouldn't I, since I'm the guy who assembled it, LOL). Also, a new version is in the works, with the most advanced version of the Kiel Canal mod (I just added more functionality to it last night), and other updates.

[Cdre Gibs]

RUB has been surpassed by NYGM for reaslisim and GW for content plus a middle road realisim approuch. Since NYGM is built upon and improved RUB mod, RUB its no longer needed. If your after realisim then the install would be like this:

SHIII
1.4b Patch
GW
GW 1.1 patch
NYGM
NYGM Unified GW campain.
DG-AA_Destabilized_v1.02

That way the last bits added are the realisim bits so therefor will NOT be overwritten and will give you what your after. If you just install rub only then you would be doing youself a major disservice. Both NYGM and GW address real time historical issues as far as ships subs planes missions plus go a lot further with fixing the DG and the Flack than RUB ever did. Infact the GW 1.1 patch again fine tunes the above.

[Beery]

Yeah, well that's Cdre Gibs for you . There's one talented modder whose work has been wasted or lost because he's unwilling to share his knowledge or to join with the wider modding community. We've learned to take his 'advice' with a pinch of salt because it comes at the cost of his ego and personal bias (both of which are considerable). Personally, I have grave doubts whether he knows what he's talking about, as I'd be very surprised if he's actually ever used RUb given his long-standing prejudice against it.

As for realism, there's no 'middle of the road'. It's as realistic as possible or it's not. If GW goes for less realism, it can't be for hardcore realism fans - QED. I'm not saying it's not a great mod. I'm just saying that it's built for a wider audience, and the originator of this thread wrote that he is fully committed to realism.

As for NYGM, while it's clearly a great mod that focuses strongly on realism, it uses the milk cow mod, and in my opinion the milk cow mod makes NYGM lack in both realism and playability. While the milk cow mod was a good idea, it has never been fully completed, and I think it causes more problems than it solves: because of its unfinished state it is essentially a 'chrome' mod - it gives players the bells and whistles that go along with milk cows, but it causes the player to jump through hoops to get to them, and it causes gameplay issues such as forcing the player to undergo massive and unrealistic repairs while at sea. In my opinion, the Milk Cow mod is an unfinished mod. In fact it cannot be finished, and as such I think it inserts a deep flaw into any mod that uses it. In my opinion SH3 Commander's Milk Cow mod works better, and within the abilities of the game, albeit with less 'chrome'.

If NYGM existed without the Milk Cow mod it would be as realistic, or more so, than RUb (the only other questionable content being the fatigue model - but any fatigue model is always going to be abstract to a great extent due to the limitations of the model we have to work with).

I'd say that, based on what GreyOctober has written, the only choice he has is between RUb and NYGM. If he's after realism, either of those will meet his requirements. It's probably just a question of whether he can deal with the negatives of the Milk Cow mod, and whether he can deal with the more traditional method of crew management (where you need to micromanage the crew) that NYGM features. If he can, and if NYGM really has a realistic deck gun (as it advertises), he may indeed find that NYGM is the mod for him.

Sure, RUb has its negatives too - NYGM's realistic ship sinking feature is clearly superior to that of RUb. The question is, which mod's negative points are more important? For me, I just wouldn't be able to deal with the problems of the Milk Cow mod, and I must admit to a certain bias in terms of my fatigue model, which I think takes a flawed system and perfects it in terms of gameplay. These are my reasons for choosing RUb (even though it's gone 5 months without an upgrade), and why I haven't gone over to NYGM.

[Cdre Gibs]

No skin off my nose, I dont have anything to do with either mod, You have just dumped on Der Teddy Bar and Kpt Lehmann. Nice 1, I see your as charming as ever...not.

The fact is I only told him the truth, if you cant handle the truth, thats not my problem. RUB has been made redundant ATM. Now if you some how manage to surpass NYGM plus GW, then you can brag till the cows come home claiming that your the "Subsim Mod Master". Till then I'd suggest you try a few of the other mods ppl have done and be better informed before opening your mouth and looking rather stupid. Hell you may even LIKE them (heaven forbid) or even better yet HELP them improve on their work (you know that bit about all modders helping each other, I believe you said that), instead of acting the nob.

[Sailor Steve]

Let's see: I use the map section from RUB, the NYGM ship sinking and the Campaign files from GW (since that's the only place I can get Rubini's final harbor traffic mod). Other than that, I have a large file of favorite mods I always install one at a time, so I can have my perfect game.

So there.

[GreyOctober]

Gentlemen, .....please... lets not make this thread "yet another locked one", shall we?

Ok lets see, Gibbs. Youre saying that i should install GW (patched) and then mod it with NYGM... .i hope i understood corectlly. Sorry for asking so many questions but im out of HDD space to backup in case i go wrong and installing SHIII again....uuuuhhhh thats a nono
And what does DG-AA_Destabilized_v1.02 do?

Thank you all.

GreyOctober

[Cdre Gibs]

Yep, install in that order. The GW mod being mostly eye candy will be overwritten by NYGM which is mostly realisim. That way you can have your cake and eat it

The DG-AA_Destabilized_v1.02 is an update that was included in the GW 1.1 patch but the NYGM will overwrite it. Its basicaly the GW and NYGM DG/AA settings combined.

[Sailor Steve]

[Stiebler]

Beery said that he doesn't like NYGM's milk cows mod (which I implemented, incidentally).

That is fair enough, but I would like to point up that no one is forced to use the milk cows (U-tankers) in NYGM, which is compatible with SH3Commander. So anyone who uses NYGM can take all the acknowledged benefits without the U-tankers, and use Beery's solution.

Further, the next release of NYGM will contain an optional extra mod (SH3Patrol) that fixes some of the problems of implementation of use of the U-tankers. In particular, it fixes the 'NULL' patrol problem, as well as setting a 1-2 day docking time. It will not, however, fix the full repair problem, nor the full torpedo load-out problem. As Beery says, hard-coding in SH3 means that there can never be a perfect solution. However, the answer to some of the perceived difficulties lies in the player's own hands: if you don't like a full torpedo load-out at the U-tanker base, don't shoot off so many when you leave the U-tanker!

Stiebler.

[Beery]

[GreyOctober]

OK everything clear now...thanks a bunch gents.

NOW...ive taken the time to review the longish list of mods on top of the forums and found some intereting ones. There is one in particular that caught my eye...the battery fix mod. Anyone tried it? Is it working with GW+MYGM. I assume i has no negative effect on the setup but doesnt hurt to ask.

Any other recommendations are very welcomed.

Calm seas and fair winds,

G.O.

[Cdre Gibs]

The Battery Fix is included in the GW mod, as far as I'm aware its not overwritten by NYGM since its for the Type XXI (may include others, not sure). But if you wanted to be sure (just in case NYGM did touch the sub files) then you could install the Battery Fix last.