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timmyg00
Joined: 11 Jan 2001
Posts: 1003
Location: The People's Republic of Massachusetts, USA
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 Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Let's not get into the differences between propaganda and what passes for journalism these days 
LW, I've nothing but praise for your efforts and am happy with what you and Amizaur have done with DW, even though I have precious little play-time to back up my opinions... i'm trying to get back in, i really am 
I also agree that (a) these weapons don't yet belong in the sim and (b) they're probably not a big deal anyway, and not just for the reasons stated.
TG |
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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Now, I COULD make a Squal with a tactical nuclear warhead and put it on a special version of a ship added to the Iranian navy...
That might be cool... if not a bit stereotypical.
If there is going to be any kind of "nuke addition" to DW, that might be one of the more plausible.
goldorak, you have brought up a good point there. The Squal was originally designed to carry a nuclear warhead... if the Iranians got one of THOSE that would suck, but I seriously doubt that any but their plans exist now, of course that could be enough for the Iranians if they have a viable nuclear program, which it would seem they do... 
Last edited by LuftWolf on Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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OKO
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 468
Location: Solar system, mainly on earth
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| timmyg00 wrote: | Actually, I think the Iranians are currently testing 2 different items: a "stealthy" land-based anti-ship missile and the presumably-supercavitating torpedo. The media/press is probably confusing the two items in their reports.
In any case, it seems like they are not screwing around when it comes to naval defense measures... or perhaps they're just blowing a bunch of hot air for propaganda's sake.
TG |
I know it's two different things, that's why I used "if"
Combinaison of a stealthy very fast boat and an underwater missile could cause ... quite a HUGE problem for convoy escort.
Those things really look like they are made to be used together.
On the test of the underwater missile, it was launched from a patrol boat and not from a sub.
I suppose the flying boat won't be unarmed anyway ... and his best weapon could be this one. |
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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| timmyg00 wrote: | Let's not get into the differences between propaganda and what passes for journalism these days
LW, I've nothing but praise for your efforts and am happy with what you and Amizaur have done with DW, even though I have precious little play-time to back up my opinions... i'm trying to get back in, i really am
I also agree that (a) these weapons don't yet belong in the sim and (b) they're probably not a big deal anyway, and not just for the reasons stated.
TG |
Timmy, just to be clear, I have nothing but respect for your many contributions to SubSim... I don't want you to think at all that I'm jumping ugly on or about your thread.  
Cheers,
David
Last edited by LuftWolf on Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bubblehead Nuke
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| OKO wrote: | | I suppose the flying boat won't be unarmed anyway ... and his best weapon could be this one. |
This "flying boat' is nothing more then a WIG "Wing in Ground Effect" vehicle.
Do a quick search on the internet and you can find large amounts of data on them. The 'Caspian Sea Monster' of the cold war is the most well known.
Check out: http://www.se-technology.com/wig/index.php for some of the basics.
Do a search for Ekranoplans for more info. This is a GREAT idea that someone had. One that I tip my hat to the Soviets for their research and development.
And you are right about this being their best weapon. These are DANGEROUS things if used right. Low altitude, fairly high speed, and HUGE cargo capacities if made right. I shudder to think what a squardon of these, armed correctly, could do to a SAG.
I think the Iranians are, unfortunately, onto something with this one. |
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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I shudder to think what a squardon of these, armed correctly, could do to a SAG. |
Absorb large amounts of RAM, CIWS, and .50cal fire?   \ |
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| LuftWolf wrote: | | Quote: | | I shudder to think what a squardon of these, armed correctly, could do to a SAG. |
Absorb large amounts of RAM, CIWS, and .50cal fire? \ |
And probably some 5.56, 9mm and if they attack my buddy's Tin Can the DDG-81 some .45 cal, harsh language and a coffee mug!  |
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OKO
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 468
Location: Solar system, mainly on earth
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Bubblehead Nuke wrote: | | OKO wrote: | | I suppose the flying boat won't be unarmed anyway ... and his best weapon could be this one. |
This "flying boat' is nothing more then a WIG "Wing in Ground Effect" vehicle.
Do a quick search on the internet and you can find large amounts of data on them. The 'Caspian Sea Monster' of the cold war is the most well known.
Check out: http://www.se-technology.com/wig/index.php for some of the basics.
Do a search for Ekranoplans for more info. This is a GREAT idea that someone had. One that I tip my hat to the Soviets for their research and development.
And you are right about this being their best weapon. These are DANGEROUS things if used right. Low altitude, fairly high speed, and HUGE cargo capacities if made right. I shudder to think what a squardon of these, armed correctly, could do to a SAG.
I think the Iranians are, unfortunately, onto something with this one. |
Nothing more, but with very different objectives.
I know about russians flying boats, I've read some amazing things about it, they were planning a really HUGE transport with this concept.
But if it's the same concept, it's not the same goal
Here it's not transport, but fast attack small ship.
Give 2 underwater rockets to the wings of this small boat, and you'll have a very dangerous thing, with unmatched engagment speed.
the time ennemy realise there is a very strange and fast thing around, the target of the flying boat will be hit.
We don't know yet if this rocket will be submarine launched capable.
We have to take a lot of care also on the Iranian propaganda (stealthy to sonar and supercavitating in the same time just look ridiculous ...)
But this rocket WAS launched from a patrol boat (or something bigger, I just saw a very short movie at french TV)
So, it's far from science fiction to imagine they could couple flying boats with that weapon.
If I was them I will have done that :hmm:
don't you ?
Maybe it's just a question of development time ... |
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Yea but a Cobra gunship or hellfire armed Seahawk would be a match for this thing! |
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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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I still don't see those boats with Squals being any more effective than say a jet armed with anti-ship missiles?
Is there something I'm missing?
It sounds like large fast transports are a better application of this technology. |
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moose1am
Joined: 27 Mar 2002
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: Perhaps they are just blowing smoke is my thinking right now |
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Did the USA disclose it's new tecnology before it went to war? No. And no other country in their right mind will dilvulge it top secret weapons until they are used against an enemy. Right now the USA and other countries are probably working on many new weapons and technolgoies and the last thing they want is for a potential enemy to learn about these weapons. You would risk loosing the element of surprise or a war if you let the enemy in on your top secretes.
So I hope that Iran is just blowing a lot of hot gas right now. A lot of talk has been going on about nuking or destorying Iran's potential to use nuclear weapons. And after what the world has seen the USA do in the past 6 year most countries would be wise to figure out a way to defend their resource if they can.
These supercavatating rocket propelled torpedoes have never been used in anger.. yet. I read where the Kurst was lost due to one of those babies blowing up inside the sub. I am sure that one of our nuclear subs was nearby gathing intel on Iran's war games. I'll bet there were a couple of seawolfs out there gathering intel on Iran.
Radar evading missiles developed by Iran?
Until Iran gets nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them to the USA they will remain on our short list of easy targets.
| timmyg00 wrote: | Actually, I think the Iranians are currently testing 2 different items: a "stealthy" land-based anti-ship missile and the presumably-supercavitating torpedo. The media/press is probably confusing the two items in their reports.
In any case, it seems like they are not screwing around when it comes to naval defense measures... or perhaps they're just blowing a bunch of hot air for propaganda's sake.
TG |
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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SeaQueen
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| LuftWolf wrote: | I still don't see those boats with Squals being any more effective than say a jet armed with anti-ship missiles?
Is there something I'm missing?
It sounds like large fast transports are a better application of this technology. |
I'm not sure I'd use the squal as my first shot because it'd be unlikely I'd get a second one, but it'd probably make counterfire very effective. So... in cases where I get shot at first and I don't have a good idea where the guy shooting at me is, the squal might have a better chance of hitting. Because he's not going to be able to get as far away from that bearing as he would with a conventional torpedo.
You'd probably also want to salvo them.
Now that I think about it, actually, a salvo of them, fired from a sub at periscope depth, could be a good first shot. You just mark the bearings of each surface ship, and let 'er rip. They'll stand good chance of hitting.
Is that more effective than a jet with ASCM? It probably depends on stuff. |
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Barleyman
Joined: 07 Jul 2002
Posts: 113
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Guys,
Hate to rain on your parade and all, but shkval-e has been on sale for many years.. Iran could quite reasonably buy one, as long as they put enough euros on the table.
After all, Russians sold Kilo to these guys.
Flying wing boo boo nonwithstanding. |
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Kapitan
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 5385
Location: essex england also st petersburg russia
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| anyone can buy a skhval infact i wouldnt hesitate to doubt Viktor bout was in on the entire deal he is the one guy who solidly managed to make the deal with iran to buy Kilo's in the first place. |
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