[Palindromeria]

EUREKA !

OK hopefully i wont need 20 helos to the job of 2. THANKS

i am trying to set up a convoy traveling over a large area.
sub placement pretty wide and never detects a thing at start
the sub knows its generally start area but has to go find it.
it can take several tc hours of sprint drift to locate and arrive.

do buoys placed in the mission file have the same 2 hour time limit as ones i drop as helo ?

is there any other particular tactic setting (like sonobuoy search) to make the helos use em ?(or that are useless and should be avoided )
do i have to prog the helo's to use them ? or will every sonobuoy equipped vehicle "hear" the data and uplink it and react ?

thanks again !
sorry for the rush of question

[LuftWolf]

As long as you do not set their tactic in the mission design to "transit" and they have a LOS to the buoys detecting the sub, the AI will effectively track and attack hostile buoy contacts.

In terms of sonobuoys, yes, they have the same time limit.

You can get over this by attaching the attach object script to a location trigger set off by a convoy or ASW aircraft.

For example, you can program a number of different patterns for each stage of the journey or ASW search, and then as the trigger fires, you can use a dynamic group to determine which of the patterns is actually triggered. Once you get the hang of it, you can actually make effective and unpredictable combinations to catch players as they try to stalk the convoy.

Up to this point, there has not been much utilization of this technique, it would be great if you got it to work well. Make sure you keep us up to date on your progress!

Cheers,
David

[Palindromeria]

yep

i was thinking once i have dynamic group(s) of buoys set up i could re spawn it further along the route at regular time interval(s).

as sosus is nowhere to be found i have no problems with the realism of it

thank you again

l'chaim,
dave

[Palindromeria]

SWEET ! so diff its like freakin nite and day

added a few buoys to that test mission where i blow away 6 helo's while at flank

start at 30m depth
call flank
accelerated to 35kts.
call 16 m
many torps in water

:dead:

if my sail broke surface , it was already in pieces.

[LuftWolf]

Yep, if a future patch can address the issue of getting aircraft to lay buoy patterns on their own, the aircraft/helos will be in great shape!

I DO have faith that SCS is going to address this one in the future.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

[Palindromeria]

TEST 2

setup
settings to full manual

player helo at 600 ft altitude

ai akula2 set to 56 ft depth 5 kts

note at this depth the ai akula's conning tower just barely breaks the
surface and basically submerging/surfacing with the waves.

game starts - helo on akula's 180 at approx 7500 yds

IMMEDIATELY GET "VISUAL SIGHTING" with full range course and speed info. and yes i can see a spot in the ocean

flip on radar - get a blip there too.

------------------------------------------------------------

as player helo
the radar and visual sighting model is too good.
i immediately detect on both radar and visual from 7500 yds yet the akula's con is at lowest point possible above waterline.

this would result in a player subs getting detected very very very easily.
something i m sure we would all be highly perturbed about.

ai helos do not act on this info, suggesting they dont receive it at all.
and
"eyewitness reports" state that player subs do not get picked up while blasting away at player helos

dubious conclusion - radar and visual info on player controlled subs conning tower is being suppressed.

optimistic view - changing the suppression point and applying it to both ai and player subs would seem to be possible.

[Palindromeria]

TEST 3 (run 4 times )
stock 103

conditions clear seastate 3

akula set to 56 ft depth 5 kts
the top of the conning tower is only visible above surface maybe 50% of time but there is a small wake being created by design as result of sub speed.

helo moved back to 40 miles away

close at high speed

turn on radar

get blip on sub conning tower at ranges of 30000 - 31500 every time.(!!!!)

get visual at ranges of 7200 - 8000 every time.

sink sub with stunning lack of effort every time.

further supports "suppression" theory.

[LuftWolf]

I have just tested this whole setup for the AI using Dbgviewer.

Indeed, the AI cannot detect sails at all... the viewer reported no detections at all for the AI P-3.

I have said before on this forum that I'm pretty sure that SCS decided to intentionally disable sail detections for the AI because they wanted human players to be able to use the SAM launcher against AI aircraft with impunity, but knew that this would not be acceptable for MP so allowed detections for human platforms.

Strange but perhaps true... I dunno.

Another theory is that the code for human platforms is newer (via the interface files) and that they never got around to updating it for AI platforms, which is perhaps more likely, because it would appear there is less code in common between human and AI platforms that one would think a priori.

[Mau]

So based on this, would it be possible to do something about that?

I mean if one way we can see it, I guess we are closer and closer to be able to do something.

[LuftWolf]

In a way, no, this means it is out of our hands.

The sensors for the AI P-3 and the human P-3 are the same in the database... the engine is hardcoded to have certain parameters in this case.

I have to do more testing to figure it out, but my initial tests now and testing in the past has demonstrated to me that there is something being overridden from the database by the engine itself that we don't have access to be able to change.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

[LuftWolf]

But that's assuming the database even matters in this case... there are a number of examples where database values are never actually used by the sim, depending on the situation.

For example, in the Thrust Dialogue, although I can set PropEfficiency, it is calculated on the fly by the Sim, so the value entered in the database is irrelevant.

There are any number of reasons why this isn't working, but the database does not appear to be the culprit, although I really have yet to do a full schedule of testing on this aspect of DW.

[Palindromeria]

sorry, i dunno from debug view or how to read the databases.

do the ai and human models actually have the identical sensors ?
or are their possibly sensors just for player vehicles ?

maybe human models themselves have been rendered "invisible to ai lookouts and radar" unless the sub crew says "surfaced" (or some such)

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]