Landlubber saying "ahoy!"

Kurushio · Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 14

Hi!

I've moved up from SH3 to DW. Though admitedly I never got past the Type IIA in SH3. I just love that boat to bits...so cosy.

Anyway...DW is very hard. The thing that sets it out from SH3 is that you can't really train on it's various platforms or get to know them much as your thrown in the thick of things from the beginning. I've pretty much got to know how to use the MH60. But the TMA is proving a tough propsition on other platforms.

Could someone answer me what "bearing" is exactly? In SH3 the bearing given would be relative to your course, I believe? So if I was on a heading of 180 and the contact was at 180, it would be deirectly behind me (north), yes? In Dw if I have a heading of 180 and the contact is at 180, it would be in front of me (south)? Is that correct? The bearing in DW is relative to magnetic north?

Damn hard learning navy stuff.... Damn

MaHuJa · Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject:

Did you choose your name based on your nationality?

Anyway, bearing... there are two types of bearings, there are the Absolute bearings, which is which direction on the map the target is in (0 is north, but I believe magnetic north varies a bit), and there is the relative bearing, which is relative to your course. The places where you have binoculars available, said binocs will provide relative bearings, but other than that, DW operates with absolute bearings.

You can make your own training missions, or use some that others have made, if you need to.

TMA is a hard thing to learn. It's why one usually leaves it to the autocrew until one has learned the rest of the stations. Many never learn to do it manually at all. One tip I can give you right now is that it's a gigo process - garbage in, garbage out. Without proper data you won't get it correct except by sheer luck.

If you have more questions, feel free to ask. If you want tutoring missions for some platform, also feel free to ask.
http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/journal.php?do=showjournal&j=4

SeaQueen · Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Washington, DC

Bellman · Joined: 14 Feb 2004 Posts: 1724

Kurushio as MaHuJa said some excellent players have never learnt/mastered manual TMA.

Coming fresh to DW I would address manual sonar first taking the Kilo which simplifies the process as
the absence of a TA removes the complication of sorting-out ghost contacts. Learn all the stations and practice
with Quick Missions. Move on to the 688 (some say Akula next) to get used to the waterfall then on to
the Ak where now familiar with the circular sonar and 'ghosts' you can now make better progress.
Finaly take the SW where the WAA is a benefit but the fiddly inter- phase takes some getting used to.

The QMs are a superb way of practicing and I would stay there initialy - its like a golf driving range -
get into your swing before you cut out on to the course.

Kurushio · Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 14

Mahuja....no I'm not Japanese. I chose the name cos it's in the book I'm reading at the moment; Tom Clancy's "Debt of Honour". It's one of the Japanese subs in the book, means "Black Tide" apparently...nice name for a sub INMHO.

Thanks for the clearup with the bearing issue...can't believe I went so long without ever reading that anywhere. SH3 would've made a lot more sense if I'd known before. Rolling Eyes

Hi SeaQueen :sunny: ....yeah I'll stick to TMA but rereading the sectiion in the manual last night gave me a migraine... :shifty: I was beginning to sort of get the gist when I came to the part that says"Contacts marked in Active Sonar, Radar and Stadimeter appear as a bearing/range pair on the TMA board." What? Damn

Bellman, I am in fact trying to master the Kilo because logical thinking would make it closest to a WW2 sub of which I am a bit used too, the Kilo being diesel and all. Though I found it's like going from a horse-and-cart to the latest Mercedes Benz car. :doh:

Molon Labe · Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:46 am Post subject:

[quote="Kurushio"]Mahuja....no I'm not Japanese. I chose the name cos it's in the book I'm reading at the moment; Tom Clancy's "Debt of Honour". It's one of the Japanese subs in the book, means "Black Tide" apparently...nice name for a sub INMHO.

Thanks for the clearup with the bearing issue...can't believe I went so long without ever reading that anywhere. SH3 would've made a lot more sense if I'd known before. Rolling Eyes

Hi SeaQueen :sunny: ....yeah I'll stick to TMA but rereading the sectiion in the manual last night gave me a migraine... :shifty: I was beginning to sort of get the gist when I came to the part that says"Contacts marked in Active Sonar, Radar and Stadimeter appear as a bearing/range pair on the TMA board." What? Damn

The bearing lines for these contacts will be shorter than normal, and have a little "flag" on the end indicating range.

goldorak · Joined: 21 Apr 2005 Posts: 393 Location: Milano,Italy

suBB · Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 37

@ Kurushio

I think its good going manual as i hear a majority favors autoTMA.. MHO, which ruins the experience altogether.. id rather miss the dive than autoTMA...

For me, manual TMA is an entirely new playing experience, development of skills, deeper appreciation of the sim, more realistic, a pain in the @ss sometimes.. and in some cases sheer tactics...

I'd encourage/support anyone who chooses manual TMA...

Since 688i(1997) i been doing manual TMA and dont think that will change anytime soon..

but as a bit of advice thats helped me over the years for anyone going manual and im not kidding.

advice: it doesnt have to be wrong and it doesnt have to be right.. it just has to make sense....

...its one of those aspects of the game you have to get a feel for.. timmyGoos' doc is a good starting point.. but it really just boils down to application, your perferred method which comes in time, gameplay experience, practice..

just hang in there man Smile

good luck w manual tma Thumbs Up

MaHuJa · Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:32 am Post subject:

suBB · Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 37

@ Molon labe

veerrrryyy niiiicccee (cylon evolution) Rock

so... where can i get a bumper sticker?!?!? hahahaha

what an incredible show that is... cant wait for next season

SeaQueen · Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Washington, DC

Kurushio · Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 14

Thanks for all the info guys....very useful. Yeah I've always started at the deep end with simulator games. I play everything manual, same with SH3 where I started with 100 per cent realism. Games last longer that way Razz

Wildcat · Joined: 10 Jan 2002 Posts: 438

I personally found it to be a great help when I transitioned from SH2, I was used to manually plotting ship courses from periscope readings. I actually had sheets of paper, a protractor and pencil and would mark down the periscope readings every 2 minutes to get a solution on a long shot, i.e. 3km or more.

You will find that it's very much similar in Sub Command or Dangerous Waters.

DW makes it very easy in fact, because you get a 'stack the dots' line that is not available in real life or in SH2/3. Basically you just have to play around with the arrow at the end of the line.. Stretch it out or move it to any direction on the compass.. Try doing that and alternating between show truth on and off. Check to see the positioning between your solution and the show truth map.

Another good indicator for manual TMA is to watch the bearing of a contact on your sensors. If it's a sonar contact, watch to see if your contact is sliding off to the north or south. Make occasional 20-30 degree turns to make it even easier to determine a ship's course. If you are feeling courageous, come up to periscope depth and raise the ESM mast and take some readings, or even pop the scope up and get a visual on your target.

After about a week of just playing around with it and observing autoTMA you will have a good enough grasp to use it just fine.

That being said, I personally just leave autoTMA on as I find it to be a hassle to always do it manually. But it is very important to be able to TMA manually, because autotma is slow and is not always accurate. Also it can not do things like deliberately put a contact in the wrong spot to make firing torpedos or rockets easier (For example if you wanted to shoot a torpedo at the area you think a ship will flee to when he hears your torpedo. The only other way to do that is with a snapshot which is not as accurate, especially with non-wire guided torps like in the Kilo)

Henson · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 35

SKeeM · Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 45 Location: Bronx, NY

I belive manual TMA is were the game is at. In multi play thats were a players skill level comes out. But when proving skill it is best for both players to have the same platform. I think playing with the SW in multi play is = to useing a hack or exploit. 688's and Akula's are were the game is at.