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stavka5
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 8
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 Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: Realism Mod |
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Hello,
There is any mod or patch to the 1.03 version to make the numbers/data of DW more real! For example the 35Knots instead of 40 of Seawolf and the 610m Max deep instead of 1000+++ of Seawolf! The sensibility of Akula passive sonar i think it must be improved!
Thanks in advance
With best regards
Tercio Sampaio |
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Deathblow
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Your going to have to qualify those beliefs that the SW can only do 35knots  and some believe that because of the steel that the SW is made of, it can actually dive greater than 600m.... they say the same of the Akula because of its double hull.
what's "real" is the submarine world is largely conjective and rumor only, nothing more.... you won't find a mod that has exactly the stats the you endorse, because eveyone draws there own conclusions...
... but to answer your question, the stats of each ship are open for modding for those with the patient and motivation to do so. Look on Bill's Nichols Subguru site for mod tools, http://www.subguru.com/ and the mod section of this site is the best place to put questions. |
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BigBadVuk
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with all of the above,i will like just to add that if u think that sensors r not correct or maybe has low sensitivity u can try with LWAMI mode or maybe u just didnt still get the good way to utilise them...lol  |
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Kazuaki Shimazaki II
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:24 am Post subject: |
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I always wonder why is there so much variation in speed and displacements estimates.
Drag increases very fast when you go faster, so if you have the horsepower and even a rough estimate of the hull dimensions and shape, how can the speed estimate vary like 5 or even 10 knots. Maybe 2-3, but 5-10?
Same thing with displacement - you have the draft and the rough hull shape, why do the full displacement for especially the Typhoon vary from 26000 to 40000?
What are the factors that can't be easily known or reasonably assumed and will create such huge differences? |
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stavka5
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Hello,
Ok, i know that the true data is classified but if the must confident and official sites says that SW have a speed of 35 and the Max Deep of 610m WHY the DW make it with 40 Knots and almost 2x of max deep !?!?!?!? I understand if it is 700 BUT more than 2x i think it is a cheat of sonalyst to make the americans submarine much better than akula :hulk: it is not right to see in the encyclopedia of the DW in the infos for the seawolf "speed of 35+ Knots (but for the gameplay is 40)" and so on for the max dive.
and i dont think that the passive sonar of the akula is so bad in sensibility like the one that is implemented in DW.
Best regards
Tercio Sampaio |
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Sea Demon
Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 970
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Hi Stavka,
The deepest I've ever gotten the Seawolf is (2000 ft. / 609 meters). At that depth, my crew starts yelling that we're exceeding crush depth. I'm not sure how you got the 1000++meter figure. I can't really speak for the speed, but I've seen some sources that list it as >35 knots. Some of them just say 35 knots. I'm just guessing that it's at least in the ballpark. None of us really know the actual speed of Seawolf or Akula.
Sea Demon |
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Dr.Sid
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 205
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Aren't you messing feets with meters ?  |
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stavka5
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:40 am Post subject: |
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I almost time use the akula and see the units in meters! When i tried the seawolf probably i not note/saw the units and probably i messed the units 
I will try it with more attention 
Thanks very much
Best regards
Tercio Sampaio
P.S.: the LWAMI 1.03b is compatible with 1.03 final version of DW ??? |
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stavka5
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Hello,
I saw that the LWAMI maker will release a new version of LWAMI to the 1.03 retail version very soon 
Thanks very much
Best regards
Tercio Sampaio |
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Deathblow
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Kazuaki Shimazaki II wrote: | | Drag increases very fast when you go faster, so if you have the horsepower and even a rough estimate of the hull dimensions and shape, how can the speed estimate vary like 5 or even 10 knots. Maybe 2-3, but 5-10? |
Because "official" horsepower quotes for most submarine nuclear reactors are baloney. No one is really going to reveal the true maximum power output of their subs, just dumbed down numbers. Reactor/transmission design is probably the most guarded aspect of submarine characteristics. Even then, how well that reactor power is converted to useful thrust by the gearing and ultimately the screw effeciency is as guarded as well. |
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Deathblow
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| stavka5 wrote: | Ok, i know that the true data is classified but if the must confident and official sites says that SW have a speed of 35 and the Max Deep of 610m WHY the DW make it with 40 Knots and almost 2x of max deep !?!?!?!? I understand if it is 700 BUT more than 2x i think it is a cheat of sonalyst to make the americans submarine much better than akula :hulk: it is not right to see in the encyclopedia of the DW in the infos for the seawolf "speed of 35+ Knots (but for the gameplay is 40)" and so on for the max dive.
and i dont think that the passive sonar of the akula is so bad in sensibility like the one that is implemented in DW. |
I've seen sources that say the a SW can do 45 knots :huh: . Its all conjecture like said. But most agree that there's a reason for the $3 billion price tag of a SW. Its not just fancy bathroom towels..... very very expensive and impressive systems.
ps)some "official" sources put the Akula's top speed at 28knots!! |
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Kazuaki Shimazaki II
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Deathblow wrote: | | Because "official" horsepower quotes for most submarine nuclear reactors are baloney. |
Won't they do the calcs using the same or similar "official" numbers, though?
| Quote: | | Reactor/transmission design is probably the most guarded aspect of submarine characteristics. Even then, how well that reactor power is converted to useful thrust by the gearing and ultimately the screw effeciency is as guarded as well. |
Can't they use civilian systems to get some kind of estimate? It won't be very precise, but at high speeds, 100% more power buys you only about 4 knots - so the guys assuming an Akula putts along at 35 knots are saying its overall T/W is over 2x as good as the guys assuming it putts along at 28 knots - so there should be a very wide margin of errror. |
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Deathblow
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Kazuaki Shimazaki II wrote: | | Won't they do the calcs using the same or similar "official" numbers, though? |
Yeah, as far as I know they can, my guess is that they would probably come up with official performance results which are pretty pitiful.... and probably what the navy wants. Heck, if official results are accepted then one could just accept a 20knot LA speed and a 800ft diving depth. What is probably agreed upon the most is that everthing "official" is an underestimate, but how much of an underestimate is the real question. Some even theorize that a nuclear aircraft carrier results are grossly underestimated and that a carrier can actually reach 40knots.
| Quote: | | Can't they use civilian systems to get some kind of estimate? It won't be very precise, but at high speeds, 100% more power buys you only about 4 knots - so the guys assuming an Akula putts along at 35 knots are saying its overall T/W is over 2x as good as the guys assuming it putts along at 28 knots - so there should be a very wide margin of errror. |
Well, sorta.... that's like using the stats of a 747 engine to estimate the performance of a F22 fighter. Yes they are both jet engine, but are their stats even near the same? Civilan nuke reactor stats really are probably going to tell you even less about navy reactor stats IMHO. Really just how much these engines can really crank out is a mystery. They really are the most secret part of a subs system... ultra super secret |
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Bubblehead Nuke
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Reactor/transmission design is probably the most guarded aspect of submarine characteristics. Even then, how well that reactor power is converted to useful thrust by the gearing and ultimately the screw effeciency is as guarded as well. |
\
Um, yep. rather well guarded. You do not realize it till you are out a few years and can't find ONE real post about it ANYWHERE googled despite all the THOUSANDS of ex-nuke types from the various navies
| Quote: | | Can't they use civilian systems to get some kind of estimate? |
While they use the same principals of operation there are so many differences in design characteristic that any such comparision is like comparing apples and oranges. Both are fruits, and totally different
| Quote: | | It won't be very precise, but at high speeds, 100% more power buys you only about 4 knots - so the guys assuming an Akula putts along at 35 knots are saying its overall T/W is over 2x as good as the guys assuming it putts along at 28 knots - so there should be a very wide margin of errror. |
You are up against an a logritmic function with diminishing returns..
To double your speed requires ^4 increase in power. This is with all other factors being consistent. That is a VERY rough number but good enough for the purposes of this discusion.
Last edited by Bubblehead Nuke on Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:24 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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sonar732
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 1358
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Bubblehead...I run into the same arguements about the sonar environment. I finally came to the point of saying...
"I'm sure that the DoD would be very unhappy with SCS giving us too much information on the capabilities of the US's submarine." |
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