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-Pv-
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 12
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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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I too have clicked the red button in three German sub games and didn't like it very much. I enjoyed the graphics, the sim, the challenge, appreciated the historical significance of what the men in those mahines endured and accomplished, but still hated sinking my own virtual countrymen. I guess I'm just a little sensitive and my father was in the US WWII Navy.
That didn't keep me from playing the games for what they were intended to do. Entertain, just like Das Boot entertained me. I just don't like my face shoved in it year after year after year and paying for it as I believed in the SH franchise more than I believed in the German war machine. I now see my investment paying off in a modern Pacific game. I welcome it. SHIII will remain a modern game for a couple more years yet. I'll probably be trying to finish my 1st SHIII campaign long after SHIV hits the shelves.
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Steeltrap
Joined: 14 Mar 2001 Posts: 234
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: |
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A few comments (haven't been here for a while, so making up for it now....) in no particular order:
* Japanese ASW did suck in comparison with what the Germans faced in the Atlantic, for a few reasons.
- Japanese navy trained by England BUT remained very traditional...considered ASW work 2nd rate and of low importance. Thus it received less emphasis, tech development and resources. They paid for it big time....
- throughout the war, there were large numbers of ships travelling singly/in small groups without escort. The convoy system never approached the allies' level of achievement.
* The Pacific is HUGE! Excellent news in that you won't run into aircraft in the middle of nowhere (always irritated me that this happened seemingly independently of where aircraft were actually based and their ranges would allow them to reach). Bad news in that you can expect to spend a LOT of time puttering from here to there without much going on. Great in real life, not so much for a sim.
* Part of the drama in Pacific is that you might just run into a particularly good commander of an escort some day, versus latter stages of the Atlantic when any escort could (and did!) kill you with depressing certainty.
* Someone pointed out that there were plenty of action opportunities based on a variety of missions and landscapes/conditions, and they were correct in doing so. Doesn't remove the fact that the majority of missions are the same as in the Atlantic, i.e. go here and patrol for a few weeks then come home, which is how it should be.
* The comparitively poor diving depths and submerged manouverability of US subs matter little when the opposition has poor ASW technology and training. Other tech aspects give US subs a considerable edge in some ways, such as radar (surface AND air, especially the latter where they received sufficient warning to submerge before an aircraft could get close).
As far as the question of which theatre was deadlier, does anyone think it matters to the thousands on all sides who died?
I'd always prefer Atlantic over Pacific, but that doesn't mean I think Pacific doesn't have plenty to offer if done well. |
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Red Devil
Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 163 Location: Sutton Coldfield England
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Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Anyone else dissapointed it will be PTO? |
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Highbury wrote: | I know alot of you guys are happy about SHIV being a Pacific Sim, but I was just wondering if I am alone in my views.
I have read alot about the sub operations in the Pacific to keep my history well rounded but it has never intrigued me or fascinated me in the was that the U-boat war in the atlantic did. I really don't have a bunch of technical reasons why. I am Americans will find it more appealing then I do.
Lets face it, sub SIMS are a niche market because honestly, between engagements there is not alot to do and most ppl who are not there for the subject matter will be bored by it's gaming value. PTO does not interest me so on this title I would be in the latter position.
Maybe if there is a SHV they will head back to the atlantic on it......
For those of you who DO want a Pacific sim and have been waiting for it, I do know what that is like. Gratz on seeing light at the end of the tunnel and hope it scratches your PTO itch. | Being a Brit who intensively researches WW2, in particular the Maritime scenarios, I would not pilot a uboat against my own "side" if the game was free. I had a book published back in December on maritime "disasters" on both sides. But, I can quite happily pilot a US sub against the Nips!! Missions in SH4 should include pilot rescue, shore shellings, encounters with gun boat patrol craft and shallow water commando drop off missions, like in reality, as well as ships being torpedoed. We should also be able ti nifiltrate areas like Tokyo bay in order to sneak into naval bases. |
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zombiewolf
Joined: 22 Apr 2005 Posts: 204
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:02 am Post subject: |
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aanker wrote: | Dogsbd wrote: | It really isn't worth the effort to get SH running on XP when you can easily find DOS PC's at thrift stores etc. for $20. |
LOL...... right you are unless of course the boss of the house (wife) objects to the extra clutter. Excellent solution for those who can though.
Art Anker |
Now why in the heck did thid never occur to me.
duhhh.
and I just sold my 2 commadore 64's |
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bill clarke
Joined: 05 Apr 2005 Posts: 296 Location: Canberra, Australia
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:02 am Post subject: |
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I'm hoping they model a narwahl class boat, I want to take on a DD with 2 6" guns, mmmmm |
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Ahoy!
Joined: 16 May 2004 Posts: 60 Location: 7th flotilla St. Nazaire
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: |
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The Pacific can offer som different gameplay than the Atlantic, although for me the German boats have more "mojo". I understand the decision to make a PTO sim this time. The best would be if the SH series went the same route as IL2; the different theaters are merged into one big game. |
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Beery
Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 2817 Location: Boston, MA, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: |
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My heart will always be with the German Atlantic U-Boats, BUT I have fond memories of SH1 (and Silent Service II and even Gato), so I'm looking forward to it. In my view the Atlantic is the 'real' submarine war, but the Pacific has a lot of charm too. If I hadn't played SH1 I'd probably be pushing for a WW1 sub sim, but if they do it right (i.e. if they include Japanese subs), then we'll be in for a treat. |
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aanker
Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Posts: 62 Location: Yellow Sea
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | In my view the Atlantic is the 'real' submarine war |
With most of the US fleet destroyed at Pearl Harbor the submarines were about all that we had left in the Pacific aside from a few CV's etc. and conducted a challenging campaign that I am looking forward to simulating in Silent Hunter IV.
From Hondo's Valor at Sea website ( http://www.valoratsea.com ):
"The final tallies show that of the 10 million tons of military and merchant shipping lost by the Japanese during WW II, US submarines accounted for a total of 54%. The interesting question remains as to how much earlier could the war have been brought to a close had the US submarine fleet been initially equipped with reliable torpedoes." |
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DeepSix
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 802 Location: DB22
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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aanker wrote: |
"...The interesting question remains as to how much earlier could the war have been brought to a close had the US submarine fleet been initially equipped with reliable torpedoes." |
A position Clay Blair supports as well, along with a claim that it would have been closed sooner had the subs been better deployed early in the war (but a lot of what he says about that is hindsight, IMO). |
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Etienne
Joined: 10 Jan 2002 Posts: 641 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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aanker wrote: | Quote: | refused to get SHIII because it simulates Nazi (German) U-boats |
I really liked the movie DAS BOOT and believe that all submariners are brothers, I just can't bring myself to torpedo any Allied warships or convoys even though it is just a game.
Art Anker |
Hi! Name's Etienne, I'm a merchant marine midshipman!
And I don't mind pushing the button. Game. Not real life.
Heck, I've played SHII while I was sailling the North Atlantic :-D The motion was more realistic... Somehow. |
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don1reed
Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 437 Location: Valhalla
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Torplexed wrote: | Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense wrote: | ok... how's this for Pacific Theatre, plus a change of pace...
let's have a Boomer go back in time to the WWII Pacific and get involved in the fracas..... just like in that movie with Kirk Douglas, where the carrier went back in time
--Mike |
Hee..hee. There would be a short-lived wargame...that would be a short-lived war.
I'm curious. Would a Boomer sent back in time be able to target Japan...or anywhere else for that matter without satellites for mid-course guidance of it's missles? Or are they completely independent? |
Without satcom/GPS they couldn't navigate...they don't teach Cel Nav at the Academy any longer. |
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Torplexed
Joined: 25 Dec 2001 Posts: 1194 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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don1reed wrote: | Torplexed wrote: | Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense wrote: | ok... how's this for Pacific Theatre, plus a change of pace...
let's have a Boomer go back in time to the WWII Pacific and get involved in the fracas..... just like in that movie with Kirk Douglas, where the carrier went back in time
--Mike |
Hee..hee. There would be a short-lived wargame...that would be a short-lived war.
I'm curious. Would a Boomer sent back in time be able to target Japan...or anywhere else for that matter without satellites for mid-course guidance of it's missles? Or are they completely independent? |
Without satcom/GPS they couldn't navigate...they don't teach Cel Nav at the Academy any longer. |
Thanks for the answer. Wow. After three months I had almost forgotten I had asked that question. |
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JJ
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 879 Location: Oulu, Finland
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: |
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I don't really mind whether it'd be Pacific or Atlantic theater. I'm getting my ass whopped anyhow by some no good fishing boat equipped with just harpoons and poo poo
And on the other hand, the weather may not be so hostile as is the case most of the time at the North Sea. Of course those tropical storms are a whole other thing altogether. But they're more seasonal type of thingies. I think.
But Pacific is fine with me. |
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Boris
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 185 Location: Bendigo, Australia
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Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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I would be truly pissed if SH4 (using the same engine) gets all the great features SH3 should have had, but does not have the atlantic theater to enjoy these in.
At very least they could release the SDK, so all the features of SH4 could be brought into SH3.
I wouldn't mind a bit of pacific action, but I'm an u-boot man at heart.
Why not include the atlantic theater in SH4 (all the content is there!), and have a fully populated global WWII scenario. So if you were able to sail your german IXD2 to the pacific theatre, you'd be seeing all the pacific campaigns going on. |
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gorilliamos
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 77 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense wrote: | jumping back to the discussion about which theatre of ops people would like to see in IV... i really don't think that it's so much an important issue where we do our hunting (or where we are hunted)...
... i think that the more important thing would be how much the new sim increases our feeling of being there... of being aboard the sub...
... of controlling the subs systems, not only during an attack, but during the normal procedures involved in leaving port, navigating, diving the sub, and locating as well as avoiding the enemy...
if these things alone are enhanced to the point where the immersion factor comes across and makes me feel as if i am there... in the heat of battle, or sweating out a depth charging...
... then i'll be a happy sub sim sailor.
--Mike |
I totally agree with this!
To the people that are dissapointed with the sim being in the pacific: Do you think the life aboard a U.S. sub will be boring and unworthy?
This is a sim, not an arcade game. Imagine the great subs we will be able to ride around in. I'm sure there will be danger and suspense. It's not like it was a cakewalk out there. |
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