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Linton
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 344
Location: Tunbridge wells,UK
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 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| So is this discussion on tactics ever going to get going or is it going to turn into an english lesson? |
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Bill Nichols
Joined: 14 Mar 2001
Posts: 2657
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Cornwallis wrote: | | So is this discussion on tactics ever going to get going or is it going to turn into an english lesson? |
It's poor form to use the same word (going) three times in a single sentence.... :know: |
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Linton
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 344
Location: Tunbridge wells,UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Would you please supply a reference to back-up your accusation?I speke the kweens inglish!!It has bin a very longg daiy and i have bin gowin four sixteen howrs |
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Abraham
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 3313
Location: Amsterdam Holland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: books on submarine tactics |
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| Cornwallis wrote: | | ...It has bin a very longg daiy and i have bin gowin four sixteen howrs |
This language style form is called "pleonasm".
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Sailor Steve
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 5433
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Nichols wrote: | | Cornwallis wrote: | | So is this discussion on tactics ever going to get going or is it going to turn into an english lesson? |
It's poor form to use the same word (going) three times in a single sentence.... :know: |
Going...going...going...gone! |
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Linton
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 344
Location: Tunbridge wells,UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| So is it??? |
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Kapitan
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 5385
Location: essex england also st petersburg russia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| tactic books blind mans bluff ive been refferd to is it any good? |
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Bill Nichols
Joined: 14 Mar 2001
Posts: 2657
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Kapitain wrote: | | tactic books blind mans bluff ive been refferd to is it any good? |
Good book but not about tactics. |
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Linton
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 344
Location: Tunbridge wells,UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject: Tactics |
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I would start with Submarine Command by Ben Bryant.I believe it was required reading on the perisher course in the 1970s.I would also read a lot of the wartime (ww2) books by people such as Mars,Young etc.The basic techniques are always the same.Technology just gives you a better chance of hitting something and avoiding the counter -attack.This only really sunk (!) in with me when I went on three submarines from different eras and realised that apart from the propulsion system that they are not really different.It is the captain and luck that make the difference.I once asked an air-traffic controller at a major UK airport if they had a tactics manual.His reply was no-he just made it up on the day with the benefit of his experience.Submarine combat is the same
You will not find much on Nato tactics but you can try Milan Vego's book on Soviet Naval Tactics.Finally just get all the regular forum posters to pm you with their favourite tactic and you are probably onto a winner and pm me the final result!!  |
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kschang
Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Sub combat really haven't changed much. Subs go faster, dive deeper, sonars are better, and weapons are a wee bit smarter, but that's about it. Fundamentals like surprise, end-run, ambush, and keep a reserve for snapshot stuff are still around. Sprint-and-drift is very similar to land force's overwatch/leapfrong advance (in a way). The fundamentals don't change much. |
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SeaQueen
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Nichols wrote: | | Good book but not about tactics. |
It's hard to find unclassified literature about sub tactics specifically. They're either really abstract and fundamental, like Koopman's Search and Screening from which you could make educated guesses about actual sub tactics if you could do the math, or else they're so vague as to not really tell you what was actually done. I suspect a lot of people prefer it that way too. |
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Linton
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 344
Location: Tunbridge wells,UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Koopman's Searching and screening.I am not familiar with this one ,can you give me some details? |
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SeaQueen
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Cornwallis wrote: | | Koopman's Searching and screening.I am not familiar with this one ,can you give me some details? |
Koopman was a mathematician during WWII. He invented a field of mathematics called search theory. It's basically the science of figuring out the best way to look for stuff. The most famous application of his work was figuring out how to plan the best possible airplane barrier searches in the Bay of Biscay. That lead to incredible casualties among U-Boats. His work had application beyond just ASW, though. It was also important for everything from search and rescue, to finding missing children, to crime scene investigations. Most every search manual ultimately references him. If you ask me, Koopman is one of the unsung scientist-heros fo WWII, his work was every bit as important as breaking the enigma code, and found far wider application.
Most of ASW is basically just searching so everything is based on his ideas. It's really complicated, though. If you're not up to evaluating an elliptic intergral, you probably shouldn't bother with this book. It won't say, "to find a submarine, do this..." but it will give you to tools to figure out what the best tactics might be, and where to begin experimenting. |
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Linton
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 344
Location: Tunbridge wells,UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| I found it on abebooks at a starting price of $150!!Does anybody know if it is available in cyberspace or can photocopy or scan a copy for me? |
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Bill Nichols
Joined: 14 Mar 2001
Posts: 2657
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: |
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The theory of optimal search was first developed by B.O. Koopman, Search and Screening. A simplified and very accessible text The Theory of Search by Jack Frost is available in Microsoft Word format from Martin Colwell's SAR library. That work explains primarily maritime search planning.
Frost's articles (and many other search-related items) are available at:
http://www.sarinfo.bc.ca/Library/Planning/LibPlanning.html
Enjoy!
:know: |
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