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Mocbo
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: How Noisy is a Thypoon Class Sub |
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In the Lwami Mod the Thypoon has the SL of 68.
Other Subs like the LA or the Akula a much qieter.
The LA has 62 than the Imp LA has 58. Then the Seawolf has 55
The entire Akulas and a large Part of the other russian Subs are quiter.
Then the Foxtrot , an OLD DIESEL SUB has 69 !!
The Typoon is not noisy as a Diesel Sub!!
Whats going on?
What is Real. Is the Typoon really so noisy and not the qiet, very difficult do detect ,surprising nuclear Boomer Beast of the Ocean??
Greetings
moc |
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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The flownoise on something that big makes it noisy. Also twin screw boats are always noisyer than compairable ones with a single screw, plus factor in she has twin reactors. 
BTW even old Diesels are still quiet boats, the old GUPPYs back in the late 70's just before they were retired could fool a top of the line ASW Frigate or MPA on a good day. |
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Mocbo
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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That a large 2 Screw Sub is noisier than a Single Screw Sub is logical. The Oscar has the Same Problem i think.... because is nearly the same kind of Construction.
What is then Real on The Mysterie that the Boat is hard to detectable?
Nothing?
Why have all West SSN Skippers Respect from that Behemoth?
Greetings
Moc |
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XabbaRus
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 6949
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Lets put it this way, a Typhoon is as noisy as a Delta IV interms of plant noise, but flow noise is high.
Fraid I can't reveal my source but they are reliable. |
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| XabbaRus wrote: | Lets put it this way, a Typhoon is as noisy as a Delta IV interms of plant noise, but flow noise is high.
Fraid I can't reveal my source but they are reliable. |
Would that source be 'Common Sense'? Typhoons are two Delta's slapped together so logically they would have the same plant noise but with twice the flow noise.  |
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Hobnail
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 245
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I mean....look at the size of it's straight edged fin! That's going to cause some major flow noise especially when maneuvering. |
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Deathblow
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
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Mocbo
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Very Interesting.
Thanks for the Addition
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Moc |
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Deathblow
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: |
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What I found interesting is the stark difference between the detection ranges of open ocean versus the detection ranges of shallow water. They estimate that in open ocean the Typhoon could be detected at 70nm where as in shallow water those ranges would be about 10nm.
I can imagine their estimates for a quiet diesel in shallow water would be... :hmm:
I think the tricky thing in modeling the sound levels in DW is that we can't model the flow noise seperate from the narrowband noise. We can only model the noise level linearly with speed, not stepwise. |
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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| The Ocean ranges would probably be taking into account the most favorable accoustic conditions of the submarine being detected in a second or possibly even third convergence zone. |
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Kapitan
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 5385
Location: essex england also st petersburg russia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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typhoon is quite noisey noiser than most the hull form is not that hydrodynamic so makes a fair noise also the screws give it away too.
typhoon is over 20 years old the oldest TK208 approaching 30 russia is replacing all submarines with the newer borey class which according to america analysts could be as quiet as the ohio's
typhoon is noisey hence why it does not go out mid atlantic instead under ice where it can mask some of its noise, but still it was a good invention at the time even if it was deemed failure by russians .
24 were to be built to counter americas 24 ohios (cut to 18 after a bit and cut again now)
but only 6 made it to sea and one was broken up due to the collapse of the soviet union.
also the kirov was to be built in numbers 12 were to be built only 4 made it to sea and the fitfh becomeing extended and turned into admiral kuznetsov, one remains active 3 reserve pending |
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Kazuaki Shimazaki II
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| LuftWolf wrote: | | The Ocean ranges would probably be taking into account the most favorable accoustic conditions of the submarine being detected in a second or possibly even third convergence zone. |
Yeah, just look at the 1000km detects - major ducting.
On the topic, IIRC, the current Database has it set up that the Typhoon is considered a "modern SSBN (+15)" while the Akula is +21.
Would it be more realistic to set things up so the Typhoon has a lower starting point than it does now (say 63-65, making it roughly comparable to a Akula I) but a higher rampup (say +25 or even +30?)
After all, if the main noise source on the Typhoon is flow, then it'd become a huge problem only at higher speeds. At low speeds, the flow noise problem will be mostly cut and you may even be able to get rid of the noise of an extra reactor by shutting it down - it won't be the first Russkie that tried to reduce noise by cutting a reactor and its screw. |
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Kapitan
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 5385
Location: essex england also st petersburg russia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| typhoon was built in 1979 the akula attacks 1984 big diffrence 5 years |
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Kazuaki Shimazaki II
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Kapitain wrote: | | typhoon was built in 1979 the akula attacks 1984 big diffrence 5 years |
In that case 68 is not a bad noise level - it is equivalent to the contemporary Victor III. |
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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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They are really of a different generation. 
Also, the thrusts for SSBN's take into account the fact that they only go about 25kts max speed, so naturally the speed increase will be a bit less for them over subs that go over 30kts.
I believe according to the data that Amizaur has the flow noise REALLY gets going above 25kts, if I remember correctly. :hmm: |
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