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zma
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 86
Location: Finland
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 Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| LuftWolf wrote: |
Sorry, that's too funny the way you described it... 
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It wasn't the least bit funny when it happened, trust me! But I recovered from the trauma quite quickly.  And as Neil Young put it, "It's better to burn out than to fade away".
My old card was a PNY, and, judging from the price of it, the components are/were probably not of the highest quality. (I now have an MSI card. What is it about the three-letter acronyms, anyway?!)
I looked around on a couple of hardware-related forums. This is what I found at [H]ard|OCP: Weird noise from my 7800 GTX 512MB. Quoting one of the replys:
| 101 wrote: | I can hear a faint squeal from my 512s when they load data if I have my ear near them. It is extremely high pitched and nothing at all to do with the cooler. My guess would be strain on the power supply circuitry when there are massive amounts of IO on the card. Such as loading texture data at the beginning of a level. Might be a little feedback at audible frequencies generated in the electrolytics used in the PWM regulation.
If it's really loud it could be a bad cap that is exaggerating the effect and might want to consider an RMA. It's doubtful it would get any louder/worse in the relatively short time period you would own the card (short compared to how long it takes caps to age). You could try very lightly pressing on various electrolytic caps (tall silver cans) with a q-tip while you hear the noise, particularly the one by the SLI connector since it is so far away from the rest of the power supply. It also could be a poorly potted wire wound inductor, of which there is only one on the board in front of the PCI-E power connector (big black box slightly shorter than the silver cans). |
I think I'll try that q-tip thing. Hopefully there'll be no fireworks. I'll have to test with a couple of other games as well, although 3Dmark05 seems to run "squeal-free". |
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XanderF
Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| That doesn't really explain why SC wouldn't have that problem, while DW does, though. |
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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Sub Command is actually so different than DW, its not the best comparison to make.  |
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MaHuJa
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 447
Location: 59.96156N 11.02255E
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: |
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In my experience there isn't all that much "2d" about the DW interfaces. At least for the "map" screens, (plenty of them on the ffg, fire control, astac, etc etc) the map itself seems to be drawn using 3d functions.
That's my experience from trying to make XFire ingame chat work in DW. (3d views and such map areas are the areas on top of which the in-game is visible. Otherwise it "falls behind" the interface. The window edges on the bridge is an example. I have a screenshot of it somewhere, looks a bit like someone slapped a window sticker (sticky and printed side the same) on the outside of the windows...) My conclusions may be wrong, but this would plenty explain difference from SC.
Also, I suspect "when there are massive amounts of IO on the card. Such as loading texture data at the beginning of a level." might be a good hint - as an example, if DW creates textures to draw on areas on screen, and then transfers these textures to the card. |
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XanderF
Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:24 am Post subject: |
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Possibly a workable theory, but my card is PCI-Express, which should not have anything *like* data transfer problems. Indeed, the bus to a PCI-E 16x card is SO wide, that it can actually be used for a video card's access to system ram instead of needing onboard ram (in the case of ATI's Hypermemory and nVidia's Turbocache technology).
You are probably close on this, though - but if it's not the bus....what could it be?
And this is especially odd on the X800XL, as it squeals by default, but turning ON 4xFSAA and 4xAniso fixes the problem. Which *surely* would INCREASE whatever data transfer load there is?
| LuftWolf wrote: | | Sub Command is actually so different than DW, its not the best comparison to make. |
Actually, you'd be surprised how much in common they are. For example, you can simply copy all the SC DLLs over the DW DLLs, and the game still works (although obviously many interfaces won't work, and platforms...but the functions are obviously identical between versions, or the game wouldn't launch at all). |
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zma
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 86
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:29 am Post subject: |
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I poked every condensator and inductor I could reach on the video card and motherboard with a q-tip. No results.
Now that I listened carefully, I could also hear the squeal in 3DMark, but only when a new test was being loaded. I'm starting to lean towards the "massive IO" as a cause, as well. I also detected a similar and constant noise in GTR, but it was on a lower frequency, and a little quieter.
I tried forcing FSAA and AF, but the squeal remained. Next I'm going to install v101 and see if the noise goes away, as cyberslicer reported it did. |
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zma
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 86
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| No luck with v101, either. The GPU core temperature was a bit lower than in v103beta, but the squeal was the same. |
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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Actually, you'd be surprised how much in common they are. For example, you can simply copy all the SC DLLs over the DW DLLs, and the game still works (although obviously many interfaces won't work, and platforms...but the functions are obviously identical between versions, or the game wouldn't launch at all). |
Ok, but that doesn't get us any closer to figuring out DW related issues... The databases are practically identical as well, but that's not at all useful information for modding DW.
My point is that it's not a useful way of approaching problems. If anything its a distraction.  |
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XanderF
Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| LuftWolf wrote: | | My point is that it's not a useful way of approaching problems. If anything its a distraction. |
But the 'massive load' theory doesn't necessarily hold up, either - when runnin 4xAA, it fixes it on one of my cards, but not on the other (and several other people report it does not work on theirs, either).
Perhaps the game is doing rapid flipping between render targets? Or rendering to the back buffer in an unusual way? |
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BigBadVuk
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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LOL...i have 9800XT..and it is quiet as Kilo...LOL
BUT my old 4400Ti Nvidia did make noise but only in 1 game:Silent Storm. |
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Syxx_Killer
Joined: 06 Aug 2003
Posts: 1361
Location: Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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When cards make this "squeal", does it hurt the card? Is the life shortened? My card seems fine, but if it ever does do it in a game, I want to know if it will blow up.  |
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drEaPer
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 158
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:25 am Post subject: |
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I believe its not hurting your card. Mine is doing it for over a year now and its still working
I guess they are emitting frequencies all the time anyway. The difference is just, that in this special case the frequency is audible. |
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Black_Dingo
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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this is so wierd, now you got me all freaked out. I just bought a new card, Radeon X700 Pro and im afraid to try DW now.
My old Geforce Ti4200 was silent.
This may be a dumb question, but are you making sure your fan is clean?
so, whats the current theory?
1. Electromechanical. The sound is produced by friction/vibration of a moving part.
or
2. Electromagnetic. The sound is produced by the emmited radiation of an electronic device. (like the way a transformer hums without moving parts) |
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Wim Libaers
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 396
Location: Flanders
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Black_Dingo wrote: | this is so wierd, now you got me all freaked out. I just bought a new card, Radeon X700 Pro and im afraid to try DW now.
My old Geforce Ti4200 was silent.
This may be a dumb question, but are you making sure your fan is clean?
so, whats the current theory?
1. Electromechanical. The sound is produced by friction/vibration of a moving part.
or
2. Electromagnetic. The sound is produced by the emmited radiation of an electronic device. (like the way a transformer hums without moving parts) |
Transformers have moving parts. The laminated core will have vibrating sheets due to the changing magnetic fields. It's like a loudspeaker, but not intentional. This is minimal at low power and with well-made transformers, can be quite loud at high power and with old or badly made transformers. |
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BigBadVuk
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I agree,completly with the transformator theory(it is fact,not theory) but do u think that thay r so bad and strong on video cards that they can make actualy so strong noise that u can hear that even if your hd is working,and coolers,and fans.....? :huh:
I say we need an exsorcist here,now!...LOL  |
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