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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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 Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| TLAM Strike wrote: | | "Sub Par" weapons compaired to the 21 and Va? The 212 isn't even in the ballpark! No TLAMs or VLS tubes on the 212. So thats basicly one whole form of combat the 212s can't do. |
Well, the next time the Germans need to launch a cruise missile strike on Norway, you can remind them how much they should have put TLAM capability on their new subs. 
I was only comparing the subs in terms of the missions they were designed to do... Germany and it's export partners don't find themselves needing to conduct off-shore bombardment very often, unlike we Americans.  |
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Kazuaki Shimazaki II
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| LuftWolf wrote: | Well, the next time the Germans need to launch a cruise missile strike on Norway, you can remind them how much they should have put TLAM capability on their new subs.
I was only comparing the subs in terms of the missions they were designed to do... Germany and it's export partners don't find themselves needing to conduct off-shore bombardment very often, unlike we Americans. |
Besides, what good will a TLAM strike really do without all the other gear. 12 1000 pound warheads come in, make a few dents, kill a few people, put an airbase out of action for a few hours till they fill the holes ... and that's it. As a component of a massive strike including reusable aircraft it is useful, by itself it is a pinprick. |
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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A dozen TLAMs are really useful when you don't have a Carrier or Airbase near by or can't risk sending maned jets in to do the job.  |
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OneShot
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 704
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Well, as Lw mentioned, the question is ... what is the mission of the 212 class subs? It certainly is no H/K sub designed to roam the deep waters around the world. And it is definitly no SSG or SSB. The job of the 212 class is primarly intelligence gathering especially in littoral waters and SpecOps missions ... and I think we all agree that a TLAM is not the weapon of choice while on a SpecOps mission or while laying 2nm offshore gathering intelligence.
On the other hand you have the Seawolf class which is a designated H/K SSN, designed for one purpose - go alone deep into enemy waters and get as much enemy SSBN/SSGNs as possible before comming back to rearm (well thats how its stated in the "Third Battle"). |
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Kazuaki Shimazaki II
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| TLAM Strike wrote: | | A dozen TLAMs are really useful when you don't have a Carrier or Airbase near by or can't risk sending maned jets in to do the job. |
Precisely, as a component in a combined arms air force it can be very useful. But Germany does not have power-projection to bring all the other components into play in most places.
Furthermore, Germany is still probably somewhat enshackled by WWII and the self-defense only stuff that came from it. Equipping their subs with a dedicated land-attack ability will cause furor. Probably less than Japan if she had done so, because Germany apologized to the satisfaction of most of its victims, but still considerable upset.
In a pinch, I'm sure you can use the torpedo tubes anyway with the proper electronics. |
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GunnersMate
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 225
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| How quiet compared to an Ohio? |
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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the Ohio is really old technology, by the standards of digitally aided design and production, but that doesn't mean that it is enherently louder than anything produced recently...
However, considering the massive size difference and the inherent quietness of fuel-cell electrical propulsion verses nuclear propulsion, I'd say that it is safe to assume the 212/4 is significantly quieter than the Ohio.
Note, that "significantly" is in physical terms... whether that has an impact during actual operational conditions, well it's a crapshoot.
I'm really out of my depth here... don't know what I'm talking about, so don't listen to me... |
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Enigma65
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 81
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Tgio wrote: | | Very nice reproduction of a very nice boat. |
She is a pretty boat isn't she...has some very exact lines she does. |
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Kapitan
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 5385
Location: essex england also st petersburg russia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| This would be the boat id want to go to war on. |
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Kurushio
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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The dining area (officers mess?) looks exactly like the one in the sub in Das Boot. Did they do this on purpose...?  |
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JSLTIGER
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 931
Location: Duke University, Durham, North Carolina USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Kapitan wrote: | | This would be the boat id want to go to war on. |
I'm sorry, but if I had to go to war in a hunter/killer sub, I'd rather have a Seawolf or a Virginia any day. |
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Kapitan
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 5385
Location: essex england also st petersburg russia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| We each have our own prefrencies, but its not about the submarine its about the captain and crew. |
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JSLTIGER
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 931
Location: Duke University, Durham, North Carolina USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| It's about both, I think...you could put the best crew in the world aboard something like a Foxtrot-class...but when you put them up to something like a Seawolf with a moderately trained crew (i.e. to the point of competancy), and I bet the Seawolf would win nine out of ten times. |
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| JSLTIGER wrote: | | It's about both, I think...you could put the best crew in the world aboard something like a Foxtrot-class...but when you put them up to something like a Seawolf with a moderately trained crew (i.e. to the point of competancy), and I bet the Seawolf would win nine out of ten times. |
Simple solution sent ten Foxtrots after each Seawolf.  :know: |
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JSLTIGER
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 931
Location: Duke University, Durham, North Carolina USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| TLAM Strike wrote: | | JSLTIGER wrote: | | It's about both, I think...you could put the best crew in the world aboard something like a Foxtrot-class...but when you put them up to something like a Seawolf with a moderately trained crew (i.e. to the point of competancy), and I bet the Seawolf would win nine out of ten times. |
Simple solution sent ten Foxtrots after each Seawolf. :know: |
But highly impractical, wasteful, and expensive. |
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