| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Not stupid, they save lot of job, but that is not all, they brings a WW2 Kaptain Oersten who say they dont know about it. |
I think the reality won't take care of who say what. It's there and works. No matter if the u-boat captain knows about it or not. So to leave out layers just becose the Captain say they didn't knew about it or didn't take care, sound to me stupid. |
Yes...i agree with you, my afirmation was an irony, may be my bad english i was not able to transmit you my thinks, i agree with you it is stupid, but with this stupidity ...... they avoid to make lot of job.....
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | But the speciphic orders to do it was found in the U-Boat Commanders Handbook. |
Ok checked my commander handbook again and found a statement where it's suggested during the deep dive to check the waterdensity and temperature currently to finde the waterlayer that protects from detection and also by listening for a significant reduction of the enemys ping.
But it doesn't mention explecitely the word thermal layer. |
Yes they not call them thermal layes, may be it is a modern therminology, they call them "stratum".
The matter is, they know the effect of protection given by "stratums" of water with diferent themperature and density, and how it make interference in the sound propagation at thos stratus boundaries, when the sound attempt tp pass from one stratus to another stratus, and know it give some protection to the sub, then they wrote speciphic ordres to take water samples to measure water themperature and density to determine those startums position.
Here the text in english :
"Section IV
B. What to do in Case of Pursuit by ASDIC.
254.) Attention is called to the general remarks about anti-submarine position finding: Section I, B, III, Nos. 55 to 64.
Measures to be taken against anti-submarine position finding:
a) Show the narrow outline (see No. 59) in order to offer the minimum
echo sounding surface.
b) Go low down, and during the dive carry out consecutive measurements
of the density and temperature of the water, with a view to ascertaining
which stratum of water affords protection against the enemy ASDIC operations
--- a condition characterized by the weakening of the echo impulses
(see No. 56, a and b). The weaker the reception of the echo impulses
in the hydrophone of the submarine, the weaker, and therefore the more
inaccurate, the echo returning to the enemy’s submarine-detecting
gear."
With this info there are no scuses, to modelate a water trap and a crew making a log of water themperature and density......
Plus agree with you, if they know or not know is no scuse to not modelated the thermal layers or diferent desnsity and themperarure stratus, they was there disregarding the captain know or not about them !!
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | I feel respect and consideration for that warrior, but the manual is the manual....... why then he say they disregard about thermal layers ? |
Comanders were an own breed. Some disregarded radio detection too.  |
I know i works under captain command........ at first are them, low ...very low down there is God..... 
| Deamon wrote: | | Quote: |
Very interesting and nice.....  what a golden age ! :sunny:
|
You will have to be very patient for it
Deamon |
Will be wonderful to have the real behaviour of that golden age..... in example, when detect a ship, you approach, shot an advertence deck gun shot, the ship stops..... then you can have a list of action, send a abandom message, send a inspection group for neutral ships.
When crew abandon the ship, you can click the menu and send a sclutter group, to set some sclutter boms.
Or take hands on it with the deck gun.
If the ship dont stops, or if it send a position radio mesage, you was free to torp it or taka hands on it with the deck gun.
Q-ships...... i remember WW1 Kaptain Spiess tells some day he found a stupid small ship, it looks inofensive, when he approach it, the small ship start up to shoot the sub with a small 20mm gun, he call the gun "tirabalas" a despective name, may be in english " bullet launcher", but when he was near the samll ship uncover his two 155mm guns and opens fire..... , he must to emergency dive, he tells the samll ship was using its 20mm "tirabalas" as a range finder for its big guns....... they was always waiting for a trap.....
I remember in some moment he comment he was happy due to the replacement of your artillery Telemeter by one more big and precise.
No subsim had intriduced a telemeter use yet.
Thanks for the trick, it looks to dont works fro me, the inner rotative dial, it wich shows "tens" never stops in correct place.
Thanks for the thermal layers info i will store your info and comments.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Yes...i agree with you, my afirmation was an irony, may be my bad english i was not able to transmit you my thinks, i agree with you it is stupid, but with this stupidity ...... they avoid to make lot of job..... |
They also could have avoided to make lot of job by leaving out the radar :8
| Quote: | | I know i works under captain command........ at first are them, low ...very low down there is God..... |
Lol what ?
| Deamon wrote: |
Will be wonderful to have the real behaviour of that golden age..... in example, when detect a ship, you approach, shot an advertence deck gun shot, the ship stops..... then you can have a list of action, send a abandom message, send a inspection group for neutral ships.
When crew abandon the ship, you can click the menu and send a sclutter group, to set some sclutter boms.
Or take hands on it with the deck gun.
If the ship dont stops, or if it send a position radio mesage, you was free to torp it or taka hands on it with the deck gun. |
Yes, thats the plan.
| Quote: | | Q-ships...... i remember WW1 Kaptain Spiess tells some day he found a stupid small ship, it looks inofensive, when he approach it, the small ship start up to shoot the sub with a small 20mm gun, he call the gun "tirabalas" a despective name, may be in english " bullet launcher", but when he was near the samll ship uncover his two 155mm guns and opens fire..... , he must to emergency dive, he tells the samll ship was using its 20mm "tirabalas" as a range finder for its big guns....... they was always waiting for a trap..... |
Thanks. Interesting peice of information. If you have more to tell from that book, i would be interested.
| Quote: | I remember in some moment he comment he was happy due to the replacement of your artillery Telemeter by one more big and precise.
No subsim had intriduced a telemeter use yet. |
Telemeter ?
| Quote: | | Thanks for the trick, it looks to dont works fro me, the inner rotative dial, it wich shows "tens" never stops in correct place. |
Well, works for me. But it's tedious to put the dial at the exact correct spot but it works. But well at least you can set this dial more precise then befor.
| Quote: | Thanks for the thermal layers info i will store your info and comments.
|
That were just a few examples.
When i'm done with the full documentation i would offer it to you.
In the mean time when you are interested in this subject i would suggest you this read here:
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/vents/acoustics/tutorial/tutorial.html
http://www.beyonddiscovery.org/content/view.article.asp?a=219
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/acoustics.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/uw_acous/uw_acous.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/SNR_PROP/snr_prop.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/asw_sys/asw_sys.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part08.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part09.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/season.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/tass.htm
http://www.fas.org/spp/eprint/snf0322.htm
http://www.fas.org/spp/eprint/snf03221.htm
www.npmoc.navy.mil/KBay/shallowacoustics.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/deep.htm
LOL
Deamon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Yes...i agree with you, my afirmation was an irony, may be my bad english i was not able to transmit you my thinks, i agree with you it is stupid, but with this stupidity ...... they avoid to make lot of job..... |
They also could have avoided to make lot of job by leaving out the radar :8 |
Well, they was near  , i use radar in SH3, but many people think it is near to useless in SH3.
In example it is mirrowed, in example if you have a contac at 030 it is really at 330.
There is a red/green dial scale 180 left/180 right to attempt to fix it, but you need to use high resolution textures to be able to read it.
| Deamon wrote: | | Quote: |
Will be wonderful to have the real behaviour of that golden age..... in example, when detect a ship, you approach, shot an advertence deck gun shot, the ship stops..... then you can have a list of action, send a abandom message, send a inspection group for neutral ships.
When crew abandon the ship, you can click the menu and send a sclutter group, to set some sclutter boms.
Or take hands on it with the deck gun.
If the ship dont stops, or if it send a position radio mesage, you was free to torp it or taka hands on it with the deck gun. |
Yes, thats the plan. |
Just wonderful.....
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | I remember in some moment he comment he was happy due to the replacement of your artillery Telemeter by one more big and precise.
No subsim had intriduced a telemeter use yet. |
Telemeter ? |
If i not remember bad....yes, he was happy to have a new biggest one, i dont remember if due to its replacement, or because he was reasigned from the U-9 to U-19 wich fix a biggest one, with more precision to be able to shoot from larger ranges.
Many thank for thermal layers information. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Redwine wrote: |
In example it is mirrowed, in example if you have a contac at 030 it is really at 330.
There is a red/green dial scale 180 left/180 right to attempt to fix it, but you need to use high resolution textures to be able to read it. |
:doh:
| Deamon wrote: |
Will be wonderful to have the real behaviour of that golden age..... in example, when detect a ship, you approach, shot an advertence deck gun shot, the ship stops..... then you can have a list of action, send a abandom message, send a inspection group for neutral ships.
When crew abandon the ship, you can click the menu and send a sclutter group, to set some sclutter boms.
Or take hands on it with the deck gun. |
Expect a very flexible game play. With even the possibilitie to capture the ship and bring it back home.
| Quote: | | If the ship dont stops, or if it send a position radio mesage, you was free to torp it or taka hands on it with the deck gun. |
In some situations you will be able to send an interfering signal with your radio to prevent the ship from signaling. 
| Deamon wrote: |
If i not remember bad....yes, he was happy to have a new biggest one, i dont remember if due to its replacement, or because he was reasigned from the U-9 to U-19 wich fix a biggest one, with more precision to be able to shoot from larger ranges. |
I still don't know what you mean with Telemeter, a range finder ? Is there any image of it ?
Deamon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Deamon wrote: | | Redwine wrote: |
If i not remember bad....yes, he was happy to have a new biggest one, i dont remember if due to its replacement, or because he was reasigned from the U-9 to U-19 wich fix a biggest one, with more precision to be able to shoot from larger ranges. |
I still don't know what you mean with Telemeter, a range finder ? Is there any image of it ?
Deamon |
No, the book have no pictures.
I not rember good, but when i read it in the past, i dont think in a Stadimeter, seems he tells about an artillery telemeters, those "T" form telemeters for cannnon shooting.
Let me check the book to found this comment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Redwine wrote: |
No, the book have no pictures.
I not rember good, but when i read it in the past, i dont think in a Stadimeter, seems he tells about an artillery telemeters, those "T" form telemeters for cannnon shooting. |
"T" form ? That would be a rangefinder. Didn't knew that it was called Telemeter. Are you realy sure ?
I'v never seen such a range finder on fleet u-boats like U and U 19. This rangefinders i see only on the bigger boats that were equiped with 155mm guns.
| Quote: | | Let me check the book to found this comment. |
Would be good if you could check it out.
Deamon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
I bring the book in my travel, i read all the book...........
Found !!!!
The comment was due to the Kaptain Spiess asignation as Kaptain of the U-135 submarine.
He was asigned to this sub in a mission to contain a rebelion onboard of some Kriegsmarine Warships, remember it was at 1918, the year of the Russian Revolution, may some german soldires was emulationg the Potemkim affair.
He make some comments about this sub, he tells, himself and his crew was surpised of the confort on this sub, specially the Kaptain room, wich was completely islated from the another sub sections, with a wooden "zig-zag" door, from "caoba" wood, the ceiling was covered in wood, a light green "abedul" wood.
The room had a desk and a "grandchair"......
The part is interested about the Telemeter...... i will attempt to traslate it in my bad english :
Talking about the U-135 .........
........"It was powered by 4 Diesel engines which developed a power of 4600 Hp total, and it displaced about 1800 Tons.
Its armament was constuted by 6 torpedolauncher tubes, and 1 deck gun cannon of 105mm, with high speed reload and a range of 16000 meters. It had (U-135) as a new, a 3 square meters base "Telemeter", wich one can be submerged in water, without this fact cause any damage to it." .........
As i can read, it sound as a artillery telemeter, wich was able to be fixed in external position with no need to unmount or disasembly it for submerge because it was waterproof.
Wrote by own hands of her Kpt. J. Spiess, Commander of U-9, U-19, U-52 and U-135 WW1.
"La guerra submarina...... sin restricciones"
"The submarine war...... with no restriction"
Printed by Lummen Graphic Works, 1956.
Chapter VI, pages 132 and 133 spanish edition.
I found it !!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Redwine wrote: |
The comment was due to the Kaptain Spiess asignation as Kaptain of the U-135 submarine.
He was asigned to this sub in a mission to contain a rebelion onboard of some Kriegsmarine Warships, remember it was at 1918, the year of the Russian Revolution, may some german soldires was emulationg the Potemkim affair. |
Very interesting. But what ? he was supposed to contain a rebelion onboard of some Kriegsmarine Warships ?
Does that mean the rebelion wasn't onboard of U135 ? And don't you mean rebels ?
What do you mean with emulationg ?
And btw: There was no Kriegsmarine in WWI i guess you meant the imperial german navy.
| Quote: | He make some comments about this sub, he tells, himself and his crew was surpised of the confort on this sub, specially the Kaptain room, wich was completely islated from the another sub sections, with a wooden "zig-zag" door, from "caoba" wood, the ceiling was covered in wood, a light green "abedul" wood.
The room had a desk and a "grandchair"......
The part is interested about the Telemeter...... i will attempt to traslate it in my bad english :
Talking about the U-135 .........
........"It was powered by 4 Diesel engines which developed a power of 4600 Hp total, and it displaced about 1800 Tons.
Its armament was constuted by 6 torpedolauncher tubes, and 1 deck gun cannon of 105mm, with high speed reload and a range of 16000 meters. It had (U-135) as a new, a 3 square meters base "Telemeter", wich one can be submerged in water, without this fact cause any damage to it." ......... |
16000 meters !? Great stuff. But could they still hit somoething at that range ? Did he mentioned at which maximum range they engaged targets ?
| Quote: | | As i can read, it sound as a artillery telemeter, wich was able to be fixed in external position with no need to unmount or disasembly it for submerge because it was waterproof. |
Much like periscopes. This is great info. I conclude from all this that the other boats that he commanded had a telemeter too. But one that had to be mounted on the bride or somewhere else and unmounted again before dive. That explains why there are never telemeters on the plans or images of that smaller boats. But good to know that they carried them inside the sub. I haven't knew this before
| Quote: | Wrote by own hands of her Kpt. J. Spiess, Commander of U-9, U-19, U-52 and U-135 WW1.
"La guerra submarina...... sin restricciones"
"The submarine war...... with no restriction"
Printed by Lummen Graphic Works, 1956.
Chapter VI, pages 132 and 133 spanish edition.
I found it !!! |
I will try to finde this books somewhere. You offered me some help recently. And that is something you could help me with. Reading the book and quoting all important statements. This concerns all technical describtions, like that once that you made above. Also any describtions about procedures, own tactics and that of the enemy. Also important things about combat engagements, like from which distance they started to fire at targets, how many torpedos which target needed and how long it took for it to sink and stuff. Also all describtions about any damage and malfunctions that occured and also any flaws of the sub that he mention. Basicaly anything that is releavant for researches. Do you think you could do this for me ?
Deamon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Deamon wrote: |
| Redwine wrote: |
The comment was due to the Kaptain Spiess asignation as Kaptain of the U-135 submarine.
He was asigned to this sub in a mission to contain a rebelion onboard of some Kriegsmarine Warships, remember it was at 1918, the year of the Russian Revolution, may some german soldires was emulationg the Potemkim affair. |
Very interesting. But what ? he was supposed to contain a rebelion onboard of some Kriegsmarine Warships ?
Does that mean the rebelion wasn't onboard of U135 ? And don't you mean rebels ? |
Correct, Kpt. Spiess and his crew onboard the U-135 was send to contain a rebelion onboard many ships of the German Navy, he mentioned some of them....."Turinge", "Ostfriesland" and "Helgoland".
| Deamon wrote: |
What do you mean with emulationg ? |
Sorry about that, was 1918 the year of the Russian Revolution, it bring to my mind the rebelion, moutin .....onboard the "Potenkim".
He not emntioned the claims of the rebels.....
| Deamon wrote: |
And btw: There was no Kriegsmarine in WWI i guess you meant the imperial german navy. |
Yes... i know, was a mistake.
| Deamon wrote: |
16000 meters !? Great stuff. But could they still hit somoething at that range ? Did he mentioned at which maximum range they engaged targets ? |
16.000 meters he mentioned is the max range fro the 105mm gun, and it is normal for a 105 piece of artillery. It is obtained at about 46 degrees of elevation if i am not wrong by recall.
I soupose they dont shoot anything at 16.000 meters, i will take a look about if he mentioned some ranges in his attacks in his historytell..........
| Deamon wrote: |
Much like periscopes. This is great info. I conclude from all this that the other boats that he commanded had a telemeter too. |
Nop...sorry, he never mentioned it... almost in this book, i need time to read the other one.
| Deamon wrote: |
But one that had to be mounted on the bride or somewhere else and unmounted again before dive. |
Not mentioned speciphically, but it is subliminal message, if he comment about it can remain outside and submerged in water........ may be.... :hmm: only may be, there was old kinds wich needs to be unmounted and stored inside the sub, if not why the comment ?
May be i am wrong in this suposition...........
But no other comment about telemeters in this book, when he tells about ranges, never explains how they take ranges. :hmm:
| Deamon wrote: |
That explains why there are never telemeters on the plans or images of that smaller boats. But good to know that they carried them inside the sub. I haven't knew this before |
Nop.... no speciphic comment about other models carried inside the sub, sorry, may be my dificoult to explain my feelings in english.
He only comment this model had a 3 square meters base, and can be submerged without suffer any damaged by the water (it was waterproof)
The device, disregarding what it really was, dont need to be unmounted and stored inside, can remain mounted with no damage due to be submerged.
| Deamon wrote: |
I will try to finde this books somewhere. You offered me some help recently. And that is something you could help me with. Reading the book and quoting all important statements. This concerns all technical describtions, like that once that you made above. Also any describtions about procedures, own tactics and that of the enemy. Also important things about combat engagements, like from which distance they started to fire at targets, how many torpedos which target needed and how long it took for it to sink and stuff. Also all describtions about any damage and malfunctions that occured and also any flaws of the sub that he mention. Basicaly anything that is releavant for researches. Do you think you could do this for me ?
Deamon |
Ok.... there are many everyday troubles and amazing historytells in those books. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Redwine wrote: | | Correct, Kpt. Spiess and his crew onboard the U-135 was send to contain a rebelion onboard many ships of the German Navy, he mentioned some of them....."Turinge", "Ostfriesland" and "Helgoland". |
Ok, now i understand what you mean. Yes other boats were also sended out to sink the ships eventualy. Did something happened on this mission ?
| Deamon wrote: |
16.000 meters he mentioned is the max range fro the 105mm gun, and it is normal for a 105 piece of artillery. It is obtained at about 46 degrees of elevation if i am not wrong by recall.
I soupose they dont shoot anything at 16.000 meters, i will take a look about if he mentioned some ranges in his attacks in his historytell.......... |
If i remember right it was U38 that opened fire from 8000 meters. What is damn far imo. With a telemeter like that on U 135 i guess they could start fire even further away. Would be good if there is a hint in the book about it.
| Quote: | | Deamon wrote: |
Much like periscopes. This is great info. I conclude from all this that the other boats that he commanded had a telemeter too. |
Nop...sorry, he never mentioned it... almost in this book, i need time to read the other one. |
You wrote....
| Quote: | | If i not remember bad....yes, he was happy to have a new biggest one, i dont remember if due to its replacement, or because he was reasigned from the U-9 to U-19 wich fix a biggest one, with more precision to be able to shoot from larger ranges. |
I somehow doubt that it was due to a replacement. Did he said that just after he get the command over U 135 or later in the book ? And in which context did he mentioned that ?
| Deamon wrote: |
Not mentioned speciphically, but it is subliminal message, if he comment about it can remain outside and submerged in water........ may be.... :hmm: only may be, there was old kinds wich needs to be unmounted and stored inside the sub, if not why the comment ?
May be i am wrong in this suposition........... |
I refered to the boats before he got the command over U 135. My assumption was that if they had a telemeter then it must have been a portable one that had to be put inside the sub before diving, cose there were no fixed telemeters on the subs of that size.
| Deamon wrote: |
Nop.... no speciphic comment about other models carried inside the sub, sorry, may be my dificoult to explain my feelings in english. |
Ok if he was happy that he got a newer bigger one then the remaining question is whether it was an upgrade for U 135 or whether he refered to the subs he commanded before U 135.
| Deamon wrote: |
Ok.... there are many everyday troubles and amazing historytells in those books. |
Yes this books are great. Great sources of information. I have a dozen of them. This books are the most immersive i ever readed. They are very different to the books from WWI for example.
Deamon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Deamon wrote: |
You wrote....
| Quote: | | If i not remember bad....yes, he was happy to have a new biggest one, i dont remember if due to its replacement, or because he was reasigned from the U-9 to U-19 wich fix a biggest one, with more precision to be able to shoot from larger ranges. |
I somehow doubt that it was due to a replacement. Did he said that just after he get the command over U 135 or later in the book ? And in which context did he mentioned that ? |
Yes i know..., sorry, i wrote that last days, by recall, whithout re-read the book...... i read that book 10 years ago.
Now in this last days, i re-read this book in my travel, and found the info........ and not, the comment was not about the replacement of a piece into U-9 or U-19, it was about a U-135 equipement.
| Deamon wrote: | | Quote: |
Not mentioned speciphically, but it is subliminal message, if he comment about it can remain outside and submerged in water........ may be.... :hmm: only may be, there was old kinds wich needs to be unmounted and stored inside the sub, if not why the comment ?
May be i am wrong in this suposition........... |
I refered to the boats before he got the command over U 135. My assumption was that if they had a telemeter then it must have been a portable one that had to be put inside the sub before diving, cose there were no fixed telemeters on the subs of that size. |
Agree with you, i souposed the same, because....if not, why his comment ?
Why his comment about it can be remain mounted with no damage exposed to the water pressure ?
Sure it was a new, and it has implicit there was alod models with no waterproof .......
But sadly, i cant found any other reference to telemeters ant any place in this book.
| Deamon wrote: | | Quote: |
Nop.... no speciphic comment about other models carried inside the sub, sorry, may be my dificoult to explain my feelings in english. |
Ok if he was happy that he got a newer bigger one then the remaining question is whether it was an upgrade for U 135 or whether he refered to the subs he commanded before U 135. |
Sadly no reference at any place about telemeters in the other subs under his command.
He only comment about it when comment the new surprising chracteristics of the U-135, and talk about it characteristic to be waterproof as a "newness".
The main question here is there was or not Telemeters in all other oldest sub models..... ? may be yes, and as he tell the waterproof as a "newness" i asume the old ones was not waterproof.
If not why to call this characteristic as a "newnees"........
| Deamon wrote: | | Quote: |
Ok.... there are many everyday troubles and amazing historytells in those books. |
Yes this books are great. Great sources of information. I have a dozen of them. This books are the most immersive i ever readed. They are very different to the books from WWI for example.
Deamon |
Whow....! and you dont know too much about it.
Some time he spot a cargo ship and hit a torp into it, but damages was poor, it remains floating and scape at very slow speed, he wait for the ship sinks, but not, a Tug appears, and it take the ship to pull it to port, then he decide to surface and maitain an artillery duel with the tug wich was armed with deck guns.... his artillery crew push it back, but then two destroyers appears armed with 150mm guns, then he decide to fight in surface, his artillery crew push back all 3 war ships, in this way he was able to run fast in surface to arrive more near to the cargo ship, wich was armed with cannons too.
It was the U-19 against 4 armed ship into an intense artillery duel, about the time..... he only tell the duel was 25 minutes of intense shooting when they push back the tug and the destroyers appears....
He comment the brave job of his artillery crew and finally at shooting distance and under fire of the 3 warships he sunk the cargo ship with deck gun fire at floatation line...... the ship sinks and he had time to take a picture of the ship sinking...... and submerge, because the enemy fire become more precise each minute.
What a balls that crew !
Really the book is...... "juicy", is a samall book, but, is wroted by the own hands of the Kpt. Spiess, it is really apleasure to read him.
There are many important data about behaviour there, some time he tell he was sailing surfacing at surface, between two destroyers separated 500m, they do not see him, until the clouds disapears and the moon was uncovered, then was fordced to dive.
Or in example after shoot a torp, in combat he forgot the last order to the dive plane operator, may be the sub become out of trim too after shoot the torp, and his crew call him.....
"Sir, must i to mantain the dive planes position ? "
He look at de depth meter and he was at 10m, he reach to contrl the sub at 8 meters if not remember bad, they was near to surface accidentaly in middle of the enemy ships they was attacking......
The otehr book i have from him, is not small, is very fat, but i dont have time to read it yet, i bought it only some weeks ago.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In the second book, "Submarines ! ....6 years of cruise in submarines", there are many pictures, many from U-9 and U-19.
I found this..... some kind of device wich posible can be a telemeters, almost it looks as an artillery telemeter.
Here the U-19 with those apendix over the conning tower :
Here an enlarged view :
And here another view of the U-19 with no apendix on its conning tower :
May be it is the telemeter ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Rewine,
sorry for the delay. I will reply later. I'm to bussy right now.
Cheers,
Deamon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Redwine, back to our discussion again.
This are curtainly the tips of the two periscopes.
The periscopes were not fully retractable and their tips always sticked out a bit.
What this is though, i have no clue. It seem to be identical with that thing on U 53...
...that seem to be mounted on the "Seerohrbock", don't know how to say this in english "periscope trestle" or "periscope rack" ?
On another image of U 53 it seem to be gone and a similar thing appear on a rack on the cover fin of the air intake pipes....
Now the question is are this portable things ? And what were they for ?
Could it be maybe mounted on different spots on the sub ? Or was it a fixed thing that was repositioned during refitting/upgrades ?
It looks to me like a rack for something. I have the impression that it could have been turned around the height axis. Was it maybe meant as a machingun lafetty or something ?
Curtainly this is not a telemeter, cose a telemeter looks like this:
So my idea was that they have maybe used a small portable telemeter that could be stowed in the sub prior to dive. If so then it must have been a small one. But then i'm woundering do they realy needed a telemeter at all on the fleet type u-boats. Maybe the deckguns had an own range finder ? Range measures could have also been done with the stadimeter of the periscope or just with angle measures with the scale in the periscope view. Wouldn't be so accurate thought.
A real telemeter is i think meant for long range gunnery. Especialy for the 155mm guns. So the u-cruisers had a big fixed one, that was retractable like a perisope.
And on this U 53 image is another thing that puzzles me for a long time.... :hmm:
Deamon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
2019
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 596
Location: Polish dude in Amsterdam
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Deamon wrote: |
Deamon |
Maybe that's his grandpa.
He has similiar eyes, tho |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
