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Sulikate
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 610
Location: Goiania, Brazil
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 Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: |
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she looks so sweeeeeeeet  |
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2019
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 596
Location: Polish dude in Amsterdam
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Sulikate wrote: | | she looks so sweeeeeeeet |
Imagine your self on a lonely uboat with her as compagnion 
Deamon i think we strongly ned to implement this feature in IUF... let it be just a 18+ sim.
app. for my perverted obsesion. 
Btw, Sulikate did you have received those files of the holland sub? |
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Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | @Redwine.
that hot girl, did you painted her yourself? |
no i am not able to draw well as that....
She is a so strict "political marshall", when i do some thing wrong she tie me at bed.....
I dont remember, may be it is a Sorayama pin-up, let me check ......
Edit :
Not.... it is a Greg Hildebrandt pin-up.
Look here :
http://www.rbeditions.com/ |
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2019
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 596
Location: Polish dude in Amsterdam
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | no i am not able to draw well as that.... |
But i think you wish you could, right?
Me've been modeling now for years a cgi pin-up girl, and even today after so much practise i can't do it so well. 
How are you're drawing skills?
| Quote: | | She is a so strict "political marshall", when i do some thing wrong she tie me at bed..... ROTFL |
Yes thats a great reason to do things wrong.
I would do everything wrong.
Thanks for the link, i kinda like this kind of art, and i hope someday to finish my 3d beauty to make some hot renders with.
This site i sa great inspiration source, fine work there. |
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Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | [quote="Redwine"] | Deamon wrote: | | Redwine wrote: | | I want an ingame working Whiz Wheel.... |
You will get it  |
 I am very sad and sorry you was not part of the SH3 Dev Team |
But i need to clarifie what i mean. The TDC back then was consisted of slide rulers. There was also a slide ruler range finder for the peri. That's what you can expect for sure. About any other slide rulers, i have to see first what have been available at that time on board. But generaly what ever there was it is supposed to be in IUF too(as long as i can research it). Else we shall see what might be very usefull and add it maybe.
| Quote: | Sadly not, i have not more SH2 installed.
Basically it is a set of 3 big concentric wheels with a cursor, all four movables by the mouse. |
How did you made them operable within SHII ? Are you a coder ?
| Quote: | | If you can add a Whiz Wheel and a Range Slider calculator ruler it will be wonderful !!! |
Yes an authentic range finder slide ruler and other imilar systems will be available, as mentioned above.
| Quote: | I have both downloaded from some place time ago, and plus i made one as mod to works inside SH2.
If you want them all i have or made is your to be used at your pleasure. |
Yes i would be very interested in them.
Thanks.
| Quote: | Look at my signature, the link Manual TDC "HTDC Tutorial", it is the use of another of my mods, the Hardcore TDC Mod, where you can see how to make all calculations with no TDC, and even with no Whiz Wheel, completely manual mode.
http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/a_start.htm
Follow the links on the second page. (you have a some small page thumbnails at botom for quick navigation)
If you have this tutorial i can send it to you in HTML to navigate it in your Hard Drive, that site is so slow to navigate. |
Cool stuff
You did it all alone ? I plan to deal with it in ditail in the academy as well. So that's my kinde of stuff here.
Thanks.
| Quote: | | I have many .pdf files if you want them. |
I WANT THEM
| Quote: | Just let me to know if need more as my .pdf files for be used in Photoshop.
I have many templates. |
Send over here everything.
| Quote: | | PD : when do you spect to release your WW1 sim ? |
LOL
:hmm: ...
Dunno. I realy can't make any estimation about the first release. It depends on to much factors that will change by the time. In 5 years maybe. Maybe sooner or later(usualy later  ). As i mentioned in many other threads already, i want to make a release as soon as i have tied together enough to make a virtual academy possible. Basicaly a prototype of a future release where it's possible to operate the u-boat and conduct exercises. But we are still in such an early stage that i just can't make any release estimations, i would lie when i would. I just don't want to give false promeses, i even will not promes whether there will be a release at all!
I don't want to disapoint high expectations that might arise from false promeses, so i become very carefull with promeses. We are just a few indis with a long term determination, working with very limited resources. There are only 2-3 people in our group that work realy dedicated on the project. I also took this in to account in my design and changed it to fit this requirements. So i'm going to concentrate the limited resources on the technical, tactical and operational aspects of the sim instead on fancy grafics(the grafics are still fancy though ). I hope to tie together something very interesting in a not to long time. But i'm sure that our team will grow to some more capeable guys who have long term determination, but this will take some time. When there will be any release i'm sure you will like it. I will give you some more insights soon.
For me it's a life task. I dedicated my life to it. I will never give it up and i have no time table and no release date that i work towards. I just want that the people understand that it will take a very long time and stop asking me when the release will be 
You can maybe start to ask me that when you see alot of new ingame screenshots and movies on my site(instead of just renderings). But this won't happen soon. The current plan is to make a release when it arrives at V0.5.
The upside of all of it is that by the time of a release the average hardware will be powerfull enought to render the ditail heavy u-boat and scenes.
EDIT: And hey Redwine you finaly found us in the subsim.com dungeon
Deamon |
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Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Deamon wrote: | | But i need to clarifie what i mean. The TDC back then was consisted of slide rulers. There was also a slide ruler range finder for the peri. That's what you can expect for sure. About any other slide rulers, i have to see first what have been available at that time on board. But generaly what ever there was it is supposed to be in IUF too(as long as i can research it). Else we shall see what might be very usefull and add it maybe. |
Basically you need a slider ruler to take ranges using a good periscope reticle.
And a Whiz Wheel to solve the Cosin Theoreme to have target speed, and to solve the 3 bearing Theoreme to have target AOB.
3 Bearing Theoreme can be solved by a simple slider ruller too, it is on the link above.
The last may be done by maths........ the user needs some simple math skill to solve the “shooting triangle”.
Remember some German WW1 was fited with Stadimeters, wich made so easy for them to take ranges.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | Sadly not, i have not more SH2 installed.
Basically it is a set of 3 big concentric wheels with a cursor, all four movables by the mouse. |
How did you made them operable within SHII ? Are you a coder ? |
Not.... sadly i have not skill on those jobs, it was on open files in the game, and SH2 was very easy to be modded, it is so better sim than SH3.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | If you can add a Whiz Wheel and a Range Slider calculator ruler it will be wonderful !!! |
Yes an authentic range finder slide ruler and other imilar systems will be available, as mentioned above. |
A stadimeter sound wonderful, look at the pictures above..
Plus remember the periscopes not only have the bearing chart we see into the view finder, they had a big giant one outside it, over the viewfinder, some ones had 2 feet diameter, wich is near 2 meters long.
There you was able to read bearing so precise, plus they had a second strip as a nonio or Vernier stile, then, even when they had minimun marks of 1 degree, you was able to read 1/10 of degrees thanks to the Vernier second scale.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | Look at my signature, the link Manual TDC "HTDC Tutorial", it is the use of another of my mods, the Hardcore TDC Mod, where you can see how to make all calculations with no TDC, and even with no Whiz Wheel, completely manual mode.
http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/a_start.htm
Follow the links on the second page. (you have a some small page thumbnails at botom for quick navigation)
If you have this tutorial i can send it to you in HTML to navigate it in your Hard Drive, that site is so slow to navigate. |
Cool stuff
You did it all alone ? I plan to deal with it in ditail in the academy as well. So that's my kinde of stuff here. |
That is the tutorial for the Mod i made, you can see the mod cahges into “Before After” section in that tutorial.
The mod introduce a precice periscope capable to read 1/10 of bearing degrees.
A precision reticle, an attack periscope and a TDC with big instruments instead the original small and offset instruments.
The mod contains a complete guide to manual shooting in two modes, real, where you fond some data and input it into the TDC, and WW1, where your TDC is broken and you must to do all as in WW1.
Plus there is a theoretical analisys but it is in spanish, to complex to do it in english for me, and some kinds of complete exercise.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | I have many .pdf files if you want them. |
I WANT THEM |
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | I have many templates. |
Send over here everything. |
Have here the Hardcore TDC Mod Tutorial for manaul shooting....... to be able to surf it on your hard drive .
It can be used as a tutorial for a WW1 shooting too, you have there all you need to know to be able to manual shooting a torp.
http://rapidshare.de/files/12776933/Tutorials_for_HTDC_Mod_V7.0.zip.html |
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Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| Redwine wrote: | | Basically you need a slider ruler to take ranges using a good periscope reticle. |
Yes i know.
| Quote: | | And a Whiz Wheel to solve the Cosin Theoreme to have target speed, |
The speed can be solved with Whiz Wheels ? I thought you will have to take two range measures at different times and then figure out on the map what the speed is. Or maybe run with the target. But i also developed my own method involving a stopwatch
| Quote: | | The last may be done by maths........ the user needs some simple math skill to solve the “shooting triangle”. |
You have covered it as well in your tut right ?
| Quote: | | Remember some German WW1 was fited with Stadimeters, wich made so easy for them to take ranges. |
Right.
| Deamon wrote: | | Not.... sadly i have not skill on those jobs, it was on open files in the game, and SH2 was very easy to be modded, it is so better sim than SH3. |
Amazing. What kinde of feature allowed to make working Whiz Wheels in the captains quarter ?
Was it possible to add Whiz Wheel in any station like on the TDC station ?
I guess yes, since the TDC is finaly just an overlay ?
| Deamon wrote: | | A stadimeter sound wonderful, look at the pictures above.. |
Yes stadimeter. Don't worry, i actualy have this book
| Quote: | | Plus remember the periscopes not only have the bearing chart we see into the view finder, they had a big giant one outside it, |
Called "Peilkranz". Actualy that was the usual solution for taking bearings. There was no bearing chart in the periscope view back then! There were trials with integrated compas based bearing charts in the top of the peri but it didn't satisfy. So they sticked to the "Peilkranz".
| Quote: | There you was able to read bearing so precise, plus they had a second strip as a nonio or Vernier stile, then, even when they had minimun marks of 1 degree, you was able to read 1/10 of degrees thanks to the Vernier second scale.
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Very interesting. From which sub are this strips ?
| Deamon wrote: |
The mod introduce a precice periscope capable to read 1/10 of bearing degrees.
A precision reticle, an attack periscope and a TDC with big instruments instead the original small and offset instruments. |
Have you something similar for SHIII ?
| Quote: | | Plus there is a theoretical analisys but it is in spanish, to complex to do it in english for me, and some kinds of complete exercise. |
That's a pitty. I always look for that kinde of stuff.
Great thanks.
Deamon |
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Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Deamon wrote: | | Redwine wrote: | | Basically you need a slider ruler to take ranges using a good periscope reticle. |
Yes i know. |
You have one template in the links above. plus there are another template for a 3bearing solver ruler.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | And a Whiz Wheel to solve the Cosin Theoreme to have target speed, |
The speed can be solved with Whiz Wheels ? I thought you will have to take two range measures at different times and then figure out on the map what the speed is. Or maybe run with the target. But i also developed my own method involving a stopwatch |
Yes, one of the functions of the Whiz Wheel is to be a Cosin Theoreme solver.
Knowing two sides and the angle between them of a triangle, you can know the remain side of the triangle.
Plus you can found the speed in knots.
You have the user instructions into the link above.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | The last may be done by maths........ the user needs some simple math skill to solve the “shooting triangle”. |
You have covered it as well in your tut right ? |
Yes, it is extensivelly developed in the tutorials, the matter is, in this part there are many diferent ways to solve the shooting triangle. You can take many diferent ways.
You need some basic skills on maths, trigonometry to be speciphic.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Remember some German WW1 was fited with Stadimeters, wich made so easy for them to take ranges. |
Right. |
Sadly not modeled at any sub sim. I attemp to introduce it into SH2, but sadly the run of the viw pitch up/dow remains steady, about 80 degrees up, 20 down, was encoded, this means to have a precise strip was needed a giant strip wich no video card is capable to manage, today or in 100 years more.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Not.... sadly i have not skill on those jobs, it was on open files in the game, and SH2 was very easy to be modded, it is so better sim than SH3. |
Amazing. What kinde of feature allowed to make working Whiz Wheels in the captains quarter ?
Was it possible to add Whiz Wheel in any station like on the TDC station ?
I guess yes, since the TDC is finaly just an overlay ? |
Yes, but the problem was there was not place to put it in another place, the only stupid screen with lot of free space was that......
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | A stadimeter sound wonderful, look at the pictures above.. |
Yes stadimeter. Don't worry, i actualy have this book |
Whow....! incredible, seems to be a wonderful book as font of information.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Plus remember the periscopes not only have the bearing chart we see into the view finder, they had a big giant one outside it, |
Called "Peilkranz". Actualy that was the usual solution for taking bearings. There was no bearing chart in the periscope view back then! There were trials with integrated compas based bearing charts in the top of the peri but it didn't satisfy. So they sticked to the "Peilkranz". |
I wasnt in know of its name, thanks....
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | There you was able to read bearing so precise, plus they had a second strip as a nonio or Vernier stile, then, even when they had minimun marks of 1 degree, you was able to read 1/10 of degrees thanks to the Vernier second scale.
|
Very interesting. From which sub are this strips ? |
I cant remember, may be a support frm some people when i claim it for SH3 prior its release.
I attempt to have all this features in SH3, but sadly they made a game, not a sim.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: |
The mod introduce a precice periscope capable to read 1/10 of bearing degrees.
A precision reticle, an attack periscope and a TDC with big instruments instead the original small and offset instruments. |
Have you something similar for SHIII ? |
Yes, i made it foe SH2, and when SH3 was released, i attempt to made the same for it,
I made an attack periscope with a giant bearing strip, with minimun divisions in 1 by 1 degrees, and another version with minimun divisions 1/2 by 1/2 degrees.
Plus i add a Vernier second scale to be able to read 1/10 of degrees into the periscope bearing chart.
Look here...... the giant periscope strip, with 1 by 1 divisions instead the original 5 by 5, and the second Vernier style strip under it in red colour.
If you looks well, you can read...... 192.5 degrees
But finally i quit...... because the TDC instruments are off set and it was encoded, or almost i cant found where to fix it.
My intemption was to enlarge those "coin" size instruments, where you cant input any thing well, but i found the bearing instrument is completelly off set,
If you have SH3 installed, you will note it is imposible to adjust bearing zero or 180.
You will have 1/2 degree error at zero bearing (bow), and 1 1/2 degree error at stern.
When i was unable to solve this ...i quit and forget SH3 for manual shooting.
When i want to practice manual shooting i take SH2, wich is a so better sim than SH3.
In example, in SH2 you have a dozen and half of diferent depth charges modelled, in SH3 all depth charges are all the same, is only one modelled, a samall plane launch the same depth charge, as a DD or DE.
Depth charge is only one, with only one explosive power for all , british, germans , americans ......
You have not modelled thermal layers !!! 
A subsim with no thermal layer modelled is how to such a tit with brasier........
It can be done for coders or programes, just needs to modelated two sea surface one over the other.
But in last days a mod to reworks the TDc was out, very good job, it was released by FLB
http://subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=46799&start=25
But sadly he was not able to fix the TDC Bearing instrument neither.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Plus there is a theoretical analisys but it is in spanish, to complex to do it in english for me, and some kinds of complete exercise. |
That's a pitty. I always look for that kinde of stuff. |
I cant found what is "pitty"....  . you can use a traslator to read it. Was a challenge fro me to do it and talk about maths in english ...sorry.
Any way, to practic effect, there is lot of it in dual English and spanish explaining all the manual shooting.
| Deamon wrote: |
Great thanks.
Deamon |
You have lot of sections, many of them in english, especially all related to the manual shooting and its calculations.
The only things you have in spanish only, is the filling theoretical analisys, where you have analized many of the torpedo run errors, and how to fix them, manay of this fix was done by the Kapitans by “pnemothechnic rules” i dont know how to say in english, may be by “practic rules”...... sorry my bad english. |
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Bertgang
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 1031
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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No wishes to add, this project is going as my best dream, out of a release date not so far...
Well, maybe I'd like some single mission and a mission editor too, just to be able to make a raid when the time is short. |
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Sulikate
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 610
Location: Goiania, Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | Sulikate wrote: | | she looks so sweeeeeeeet |
Imagine your self on a lonely uboat with her as compagnion
Deamon i think we strongly ned to implement this feature in IUF... let it be just a 18+ sim.
app. for my perverted obsesion.
Btw, Sulikate did you have received those files of the holland sub? |
well, there is nothing in my e-mail... just confirming (brunoandradeavellarAhotmail.com)
A=@ |
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Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Deamon wrote: |
You have the user instructions into the link above. |
Great, then all the questions will be answered there. Sorry for the stupid questions, i had no time to study through it in ditail, i just skipped through it. Usualy i start to deal with a subject in depth when i start to think of how to implement it. I would need a few years to go through all the u-boat stuff that i have gathered here. But i'm bussy with developement and worked so fare only trough a small part of it. I have to be very selective with my studies.
| Quote: | Yes, it is extensivelly developed in the tutorials, the matter is, in this part there are many diferent ways to solve the shooting triangle. You can take many diferent ways.
You need some basic skills on maths, trigonometry to be speciphic. |
Good job btw. could have been from me. Looks like the IUF curriculum will become huge.
| Deamon wrote: |
Sadly not modeled at any sub sim. I attemp to introduce it into SH2, but sadly the run of the viw pitch up/dow remains steady, about 80 degrees up, 20 down, was encoded, this means to have a precise strip was needed a giant strip wich no video card is capable to manage, today or in 100 years more. |
I will introduce a stadimeter in to IUF. The good thing when you have your own project is that you can do what ever you want. It's all just a matter of more work.
| Quote: | | Whow....! incredible, seems to be a wonderful book as font of information. |
Will tell you more about it later.
| Quote: | | I cant remember, may be a support frm some people when i claim it for SH3 prior its release. |
So you can't remember the source ?
Have you it maybe in a higher resolution ?
| Quote: | | I attempt to have all this features in SH3, but sadly they made a game, not a sim. |
Sounds like you are disappointed from SHIII
| Quote: | Look here...... the giant periscope strip, with 1 by 1 divisions instead the original 5 by 5, and the second Vernier style strip under it in red colour.
If you looks well, you can read...... 192.5 degrees
|
Great, can i download it somewhere ?
The original bearing chart made me nuts.
| Quote: |
But finally i quit...... because the TDC instruments are off set and it was encoded, or almost i cant found where to fix it.
My intemption was to enlarge those "coin" size instruments, where you cant input any thing well, but i found the bearing instrument is completelly off set,
If you have SH3 installed, you will note it is imposible to adjust bearing zero or 180.
You will have 1/2 degree error at zero bearing (bow), and 1 1/2 degree error at stern.
|
I noticed that flaw. But i had a trick to still make pretty precise settings.
| Quote: | When i was unable to solve this ...i quit and forget SH3 for manual shooting.
When i want to practice manual shooting i take SH2, wich is a so better sim than SH3. |
In the future Danger from the deep will be another option.
| Quote: | In example, in SH2 you have a dozen and half of diferent depth charges modelled, in SH3 all depth charges are all the same, is only one modelled, a samall plane launch the same depth charge, as a DD or DE.
Depth charge is only one, with only one explosive power for all , british, germans , americans ...... |
Right. But hten again SHIII have advantages over SHII. But well, it's still screwed up.
| Quote: | You have not modelled thermal layers !!!
A subsim with no thermal layer modelled is how to such a tit with brasier........ |
Is there realy no thermal layer ?
| Quote: | | It can be done for coders or programes, just needs to modelated two sea surface one over the other. |
But there should be much more then just thermal layers. I'm developing a ditailed hydroacoustical model right now.
Cool, but are you sure that the link is ok ?
| Quote: | | I cant found what is "pitty".... . you can use a traslator to read it. Was a challenge fro me to do it and talk about maths in english ...sorry. |
I think translators aren't that good.
| Quote: | You have lot of sections, many of them in english, especially all related to the manual shooting and its calculations.
The only things you have in spanish only, is the filling theoretical analisys, where you have analized many of the torpedo run errors, and how to fix them, manay of this fix was done by the Kapitans by “pnemothechnic rules” i dont know how to say in english, may be by “practic rules”...... sorry my bad english. |
We maybe have to try to fix the translation later it later. I have a spanish guy in my team.
Deamon |
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Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: |
You have the user instructions into the link above. |
Sorry for the stupid questions..... |
what are you talking about ? You are welcome !
| Deamon wrote: |
Good job btw. could have been from me. Looks like the IUF curriculum will become huge. |
Thanks ..... will be good to have yours in a good english for the subcomunity.
| Deamon wrote: | | I will introduce a stadimeter in to IUF. The good thing when you have your own project is that you can do what ever you want. It's all just a matter of more work. |
That sounds wonderful.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | I cant remember, may be a support frm some people when i claim it for SH3 prior its release. |
So you can't remember the source ?
Have you it maybe in a higher resolution ? |
Thats the only picture i have stored with the multiple Vernier dials at periscope strip.
I was checking but i cant found that web place stored.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | I attempt to have all this features in SH3, but sadly they made a game, not a sim. |
Sounds like you are disappointed from SHIII |
Thats correct.
| Deamon wrote: | Great, can i download it somewhere ?
The original bearing chart made me nuts. |
You can download it here, in the SH3 downloads section, in the page 2, under the name Precision Periscope Mod
http://www.24flotilla.com/html/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1&min=10&orderby=titleA&show=10
Direct link :
http://www.24flotilla.com/Descargas/sh3/ppmod_v1.0.zip
Let me to know if you was able to download it there, if not i upload it at RapidShare
| Deamon wrote: | | I noticed that flaw. But i had a trick to still make pretty precise settings. |
Please ...release a fix for it.
| Quote: | When i was unable to solve this ...i quit and forget SH3 for manual shooting.
When i want to practice manual shooting i take SH2, wich is a so better sim than SH3. |
| Deamon wrote: |
In the future Danger from the deep will be another option. |
Whats that ? :huh:
| Deamon wrote: |
Right. But hten again SHIII have advantages over SHII. But well, it's still screwed up. |
Yes i know, it is so impresive the interior 3D and graphical amazing, but has a lack of many important things, thermal layers, a quick mision editor, all the world is into a bubble of 8km i cant believe, I remember to spot the mast and smoke of japanese ships beyond the horizon in SH1 with more than 10 years back in technology, no whiz wheel, it is unexcusable, if me who i am a stupid afitioned was able to do it .... why they not ? No diferent behaviour for DEs and DDs, it was in SH1 !
Did you take a look into sensors beam angles...... after do it i can uderstand why DDs have a underkeel water camera or a sailor with his head underwater looking for me..... I made a mod for it too :8
Well can stay here a week ........ stop here.
We can only work hard to have a decent game.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | You have not modelled thermal layers !!!
A subsim with no thermal layer modelled is how to such a tit with brasier........ |
Is there realy no thermal layer ? |
Nop.... :down: they are not modelled into a subsim.
Prior game release, we claim for it many times, they says the WW2 german sub dont have know about thermal layers :8
Then we add parts of the Kriegsmarine U-Boat Commanders HandBook, where are speciphic orders to take frecuently water samples to determine the thermal layer position..... but no way, the Dev Team or the producer was deaf :dead:
German U-Boats in WW2 had a water trap to take external water every few meters when dive or surface, then they measre water density and temperature and determine the aproximate thermal layer position.
I made atrick for it, not a thermal layer modelation, but tweaking the sensors angles you obtain a some kind of protection against active pings when depth.
| Deamon wrote: |
| Quote: | | It can be done for coders or programes, just needs to modelated two sea surface one over the other. |
But there should be much more then just thermal layers. I'm developing a ditailed hydroacoustical model right now. |
You are done that in a WW1 sim ? You will be awared with the honour medal to be a pionner in sub simulation !! 
I know a second ocean surface sound a dummy simple solution, the matter is it is better to have nothing, i just be happy to have that, of course a better simulation of thermal layers, with many plates at many depths is welcome.
| Deamon wrote: |
Cool, but are you sure that the link is ok ? |
yes i am talking about this picture.....
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5615/tdc5lt.jpg
| Deamon wrote: |
I think translators aren't that good. |
yes...i know.
| Deamon wrote: |
We maybe have to try to fix the translation later it later. I have a spanish guy in my team.
Deamon |
All you found useful of my job is yours...... |
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Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Deamon wrote: |
Thats correct.
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About what most ?
| Deamon wrote: | | You can download it here, in the SH3 downloads section, in the page 2, under the name Precision Periscope Mod |
Thanks.
| Quote: | | Let me to know if you was able to download it there, if not i upload it at RapidShare |
I have it.
| Quote: | | Deamon wrote: | | I noticed that flaw. But i had a trick to still make pretty precise settings. |
Please ...release a fix for it. |
Lol, it's not a fix. Just a trick of how to move the mouse to get precise settings.
| Quote: | | Deamon wrote: |
In the future Danger from the deep will be another option. |
Whats that ? :huh: |
You don't know it ?
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=20310&start=0
| Deamon wrote: | | We can only work hard to have a decent game. |
My dissadisfaction with the games was my strongest motivation to make own games. You just won't get what you want if you not doing it yourself.
| Deamon wrote: |
Nop.... :down: they are not modelled into a subsim. |
Are you sure ?
Someone told me the oposit. I noticed when i dive very deep i can shake of the DD's pretty easy.
| Quote: | | Prior game release, we claim for it many times, they says the WW2 german sub dont have know about thermal layers :8 |
Lol, even if they wouldn't know about it. It still would work when they dive below it.
That is a stupid argument, if it was that way.
| Quote: | | Then we add parts of the Kriegsmarine U-Boat Commanders HandBook, where are speciphic orders to take frecuently water samples to determine the thermal layer position..... but no way, the Dev Team or the producer was deaf :dead: |
I can't remember to have seen such a statement in my Comanders Handbook. Which edition do you have ?
| Quote: | | German U-Boats in WW2 had a water trap to take external water every few meters when dive or surface, then they measre water density and temperature and determine the aproximate thermal layer position. |
Didn't knew it. Have you sources ?
| Quote: | | I made a trick for it, not a thermal layer modelation, but tweaking the sensors angles you obtain a some kind of protection against active pings when depth. |
As stated above when i dive very deep, they loose me anyway. But if it's not modeled then i would leave it alone. Then it just sucks. Going away and make my own decent sim.
| Deamon wrote: | | You are done that in a WW1 sim ? |
Not done but doing. I'm long not done. In my design there are also other elements that interact with the hydroacoustical functions. The model right now is still basic. Right now i implement all the propagation related functions. After that i will deal with the different SSP's and after that i want to make them interact with the climate zone, weather and diurdinal influances. So that the SSP changes dynamicaly so that you have an always changing hydroacoustical situation with very variable detection ranges and features including chemical and biological influances. But at this stage some aspects become very complicated and tricky to implement.
| Quote: | | You will be awared with the honour medal to be a pionner in sub simulation !! |
LAMO. Actualy hydroacoustics + oceanography is my most favourite topic. I'm very intrigued by the tactical posibilities that arise from it. I breeded the design for my sonar engine for a long time now.
| Quote: | | I know a second ocean surface sound a dummy simple solution, the matter is it is better to have nothing, i just be happy to have that, of course a better simulation of thermal layers, with many plates at many depths is welcome. |
Luckily i don't have to deal with radars and stuff. I can focus on the acoustical sensors. But unfortunately the hydrophone systems throughout the war lacked important features like taking bearings, for example. There also was no directioning feature. The hydrophones were of panorama type. The only thing that was possible is to determine whether the contact was on the port or starboard side. If you wanted the direction you had to turn the whole boat towards the target to get a bearing. But on the earlier boats the hydrophonsystem suffered to much from ownship noise and the boat had to be stoped in order to have a good listen. Only at the end of the war new systems were developed that allowed to take bearings without turning the boat. The new quiting measures also allowed to listen without shutting off all engines and even filters were developed that filtered out some of the ownship noise. Cool stuff.
Anyway in hydroacoustical regards you can expect something fancy.
Ok, i see.
| Deamon wrote: | | All you found useful of my job is yours...... |
A big thanks. I think i can use planty of it.
Deamon |
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Redwine
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Deamon wrote: |
Lol, it's not a fix. Just a trick of how to move the mouse to get precise settings. |
Can you make a guide for this trick ?
Thanks.... i will see.
| Quote: | | Deamon wrote: |
Nop.... :down: they are not modelled into a subsim. |
Are you sure ?
Someone told me the oposit. I noticed when i dive very deep i can shake of the DD's pretty easy. |
That is a trick, not really a thermal layer protection.
Sensors had a floor, when you go deeper than that flor you are literally undetectable.
Many people made it in diferent ways, some ones, put a floor for both pasive and active, somo others only for one of them, some others forget the trick and asume reality, there is no thermal layer protection modelled.
The matter is, this trick make you invisible, but a thermal layer not, it deflects part of the sound not all.
In example the DD must to receive a percent of your sound or ping echo. The trick make you completelly undetectable.
For this some ones made the trick only in one sensor, pasive or active and not in both.
Rally i cant decide how is the best way to adjust it yet.....
| Deamon wrote: |
Lol, even if they wouldn't know about it. It still would work when they dive below it.
That is a stupid argument, if it was that way. |
Not stupid, they save lot of job, but that is not all, they brings a WW2 Kaptain Oersten who say they dont know about it.
But the speciphic orders to do it was found in the U-Boat Commanders Handbook.
I feel respect and consideration for that warrior, but the manual is the manual....... why then he say they disregard about thermal layers ?
The conclusion we arrive in that discusion was, the method was very anoying, and slow, they need to take an exterior water sample every 10 meters, mesure it temperature and density and made a log........ sure it was imposble in a crash dive after an attack, but sure was posible when they was surfacing the boat, then they take calm and easy the water samples, and have an aproximate idea of where is the thermal layer in the zone, in case of a posible attack few hours later........and may be they when was under attacK they go as deep as they can do...... if the thermal layer was above ....... better, if not....... bad luck :dead:
Plus a experienced hydrophonist can determine it by the Dds noise reduction.
| Deamon wrote: |
I can't remember to have seen such a statement in my Comanders Handbook. Which edition do you have ? |
I have a spanish traslation, was there.....
But the guy who add this info take it from a german or english version if i dont remember bad.
| Deamon wrote: |
Didn't knew it. Have you sources ? |
The U-Boat Commanders Handbook, it is there.
It, speciphically orders to take water samples to measure temperature and density, to determine the thermal layer position, plus recommend to hear the DDs noise at hydrophones, if you sense an abrupt reduction in its noise, it means you was gone under the thermal layer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
["B. Qué Hacer en Caso de Persecución con ASDIC.
254.)
Se llama la atención sobre los comentarios concernientes al sistema de búsqueda antisubmarina: Sección I, B, III, .55) a .64)
Medidas a tomar contra el sistema de búsqueda antisubmarina:
a) Muestre el perfil estrecho (véase .59) para ofrecer la mínima superficie al eco.
b) Sumérjase profundo, y haga mediciones constantes de la densidad y temperatura del agua, para calcular que estrato de agua proporciona protección contra el ASDIC – una condición caracterizada por el debilitamiento de los impulsos de eco (véase .56 a y b). La recepción más débil de estos impulsos en el hidrófono del submarino, significa el debilitamiento y por tanto la recepción más imprecisa del retorno del eco en los aparatos de detección del enemigo."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Some body in another forum affirm it is a scene in the extended version of Das Boot, where a crew is taking a watwer sample, but i have not this version i cant confirm.
| Deamon wrote: |
Luckily i don't have to deal with radars and stuff. I can focus on the acoustical sensors. But unfortunately the hydrophone systems throughout the war lacked important features like taking bearings, for example. There also was no directioning feature. The hydrophones were of panorama type. The only thing that was possible is to determine whether the contact was on the port or starboard side. If you wanted the direction you had to turn the whole boat towards the target to get a bearing. But on the earlier boats the hydrophonsystem suffered to much from ownship noise and the boat had to be stoped in order to have a good listen. Only at the end of the war new systems were developed that allowed to take bearings without turning the boat. The new quiting measures also allowed to listen without shutting off all engines and even filters were developed that filtered out some of the ownship noise. Cool stuff.
Anyway in hydroacoustical regards you can expect something fancy.
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Very interesting and nice..... what a golden age ! :sunny:
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Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Redwine wrote: | | Can you make a guide for this trick ? |
Well, not much to tell. When you for example want to set the angle to 20° then move the index as close as possible to it lets say 19,5 and then to make fine adjustments move the mouse slowly down(or up). Make sure you click on the index at the top bounder of it. That way i can set the angles almost 100% correct. But don't remember now how well this works at 0 or 180° but you can give it a try. It's a bit cumbersome but works fin for me.
| Deamon wrote: | | Thanks.... i will see. |
This project is potentialy very hot, since it seems to be under heavy developement with good researches behinde it.
| Quote: | That is a trick, not really a thermal layer protection.
Sensors had a floor, when you go deeper than that flor you are literally undetectable.
Many people made it in diferent ways, some ones, put a floor for both pasive and active, somo others only for one of them, some others forget the trick and asume reality, there is no thermal layer protection modelled. |
Thanks for the info.
| Quote: | | The matter is, this trick make you invisible, but a thermal layer not, it deflects part of the sound not all. |
Of course depends on the thermal layer and what is in it. In the thermal layer you can finde a plancton layer for example. This can be dense. The plancton layer absords a big part of the light and cause a sharp decrease in temperature thus in density and split the water in to two different mediums. This sharp change in density is like a wall that the sound have to penetrate and loose energy by doing so resp. part of it or all of it is being reflected back. It also depends then on the angle of impact how much sound come through. The penetration also changes the angle of the impecting sound when it exit the layer on the other side. Of course the plancton layer cause a loos too. It also reflects part of the sound and absorbs part of it by it's referberation effect. So far i haven't seen a sim that simulates the fauna of the sea and it's interaction with hydroacoustics and stuff.
There are also chemical aspects that are usualy not taken into account but rather easy to implement. In the sea there are different chemical ellements. One of it remains liquid as long the temperature is not to high. When it gets to high(summer) this chemical ellement transforms in to a gas, causing a big microbubble cloud in the sea. This cause a referberation loss and reduces the detection range up to 50% !!!
So in summer your detection range will be only half as far as in winter !!! And fairly easy to implement. Requires researches though. There are of course always changes induced to the SSP, by weather, time of day, seasons and stuff. This is all very dynamic and very fascinating to me.
You surely know that the changing density of the water als changes the original angle of propagation of a sound wave but usual only the vertical deflection is being pointed out. But the deflection also applys horizontaly, causing bearing errors
Near a river mouth for example, where fresh water flows in to the salty sea. Such an area can wrack havoc the propagation and tetection. Thermal layers can be kinda vertical as well.
Anyway i want to include this and other aspects in to my sonar engine. That's why i'm going to simulate the corresponding environment aspects. There will be no artificial detection limits for the sensors in IUF. The detection ranges will be fully dynamical.
In such regards the todays sims all suck. I'm going to invest significan resources in to such aspects. But i also won't make any promeses. This subject is very complicated and dynamical. Curtain things are easy to implement, others tricky as hell. I have developed different approaches and each have its advantages and disadvantages, makes curtain things possible and others not. Finaly it will depend on the required computing power and possible optimizations which approach i will choose in the first place for the final sim.
| Deamon wrote: | | Not stupid, they save lot of job, but that is not all, they brings a WW2 Kaptain Oersten who say they dont know about it. |
I think the reality won't take care of who say what. It's there and works. No matter if the u-boat captain knows about it or not. So to leave out layers just becose the Captain say they didn't knew about it or didn't take care, sound to me stupid.
| Quote: | | But the speciphic orders to do it was found in the U-Boat Commanders Handbook. |
Ok checked my commander handbook again and found a statement where it's suggested during the deep dive to check the waterdensity and temperature currently to finde the waterlayer that protects from detection and also by listening for a significant reduction of the enemys ping.
But it doesn't mention explecitely the word thermal layer.
| Quote: | | I feel respect and consideration for that warrior, but the manual is the manual....... why then he say they disregard about thermal layers ? |
Comanders were an own breed. Some disregarded radio detection too.
| Deamon wrote: |
Very interesting and nice..... what a golden age ! :sunny:
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You will have to be very patient for it
Deamon |
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