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Molon Labe
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 1052
Location: Bloomington, IN, USA
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 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:22 am Post subject: |
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CIWS:
You know, it really sucks when you want to put your CIWS on auto, but then it shoots at both incoming vampires, and SAMs coming from your own ships that are trying to shoot down the vamps... especially since if both a threat missile and a SAM are around, it always shoots at the SAM, and the vamp gets though. So, let's have a "threat axis" option for the CIWS. You assign a direction, and every incoming within say, 60-90 degress of that axis gets engaged, and incoming missiles from other directions are allowed to pass. :know: |
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Furia
Joined: 14 Mar 2001
Posts: 558
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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There is no reason torps cannot be droped from such higer altitudes.
They have a retarding chute to stabilize them and basically they will enter the water the same speed droped from 1000 feet than from 10000.
Or you think a parachutist that drops from 10000 feet on free fall goes faster than one that does it from 5000?
Of course it is not realistic to do so, mostly because there is really no need to do so because nobody expects subs to use SAM as first defence everyday and so effectively. |
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Molon Labe
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 1052
Location: Bloomington, IN, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Let's model the chutes then. =) |
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MaHuJa
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 447
Location: 59.96156N 11.02255E
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Molon Labe wrote: | | Let's model the chutes then. =) |
They are in, they're just not displayed in 3d. Ever noticed how the torps slow their fall just before entering the water?
There is the fact that they would probably enter rather vertically though. |
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MaHuJa
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 447
Location: 59.96156N 11.02255E
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Fandango wrote: | I thought about that but the point is that I have it "mirrored"...  |
Fandangos "problem" is that the narrowband spherical classification is slaved to the hull/TA sonars - essentially, the identificator works based on the composite data of all three sonars. Unfortunately there's no way to get the lines from all of them on the screen at the same time. If there are TA lines, but no spherical lines, it will base the spherical ID on the mirror direction by the TA lines.
I don't remember if this was merely undocumented or if the problem is not reading the manual, though. |
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goldorak
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 393
Location: Milano,Italy
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Molon Labe wrote: | | Let's model the chutes then. =) |
No, Oneshot is correct the game has to be balanced even by using non real life tactics.
Either we resolve at the same time the "cheats" of the p-3 with the "cheats" of the subs or else nothing is done.
Right now the subs have certain "advantages/cheats" so does the p-3.
They compensate one against the other. |
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Molon Labe
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 1052
Location: Bloomington, IN, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| MaHuJa wrote: | | Molon Labe wrote: | | Let's model the chutes then. =) |
They are in, they're just not displayed in 3d. Ever noticed how the torps slow their fall just before entering the water?
There is the fact that they would probably enter rather vertically though. |
Yeah, they'd bleed of their forward velocity quite quickly, and the "lob" wouldn't be possible. (unless the wind carried it...) |
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Molon Labe
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 1052
Location: Bloomington, IN, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| goldorak wrote: | | Molon Labe wrote: | | Let's model the chutes then. =) |
No, Oneshot is correct the game has to be balanced even by using non real life tactics.
Either we resolve at the same time the "cheats" of the p-3 with the "cheats" of the subs or else nothing is done.
Right now the subs have certain "advantages/cheats" so does the p-3.
They compensate one against the other. |
Playing a game where torps are lobbed with perfect accuraccy miles away is about as much fun as playing a game where you have to sit at PD all day in order to survive. Even if this cheat did create balance--and it doesn't--it wouldn't be justifed because it ruins any possibility of having a fun game. The solution is to add limitations/disincentives to SAM usage, not to add more un-realism on top of the problem! That just makes it worse! |
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Fandango
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 654
Location: Trieste, Italy
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| MaHuJa wrote: | | Fandango wrote: | | I thought about that but the point is that I have it "mirrored"... |
Fandangos "problem" is that the narrowband spherical classification is slaved to the hull/TA sonars - essentially, the identificator works based on the composite data of all three sonars. Unfortunately there's no way to get the lines from all of them on the screen at the same time. If there are TA lines, but no spherical lines, it will base the spherical ID on the mirror direction by the TA lines.
I don't remember if this was merely undocumented or if the problem is not reading the manual, though. |
Thanx for the explaination Mahuja...  |
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Apocal
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 114
Location: Norfolk, VA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Molon Labe wrote: | CIWS:
You know, it really sucks when you want to put your CIWS on auto, but then it shoots at both incoming vampires, and SAMs coming from your own ships that are trying to shoot down the vamps... especially since if both a threat missile and a SAM are around, it always shoots at the SAM, and the vamp gets though. So, let's have a "threat axis" option for the CIWS. You assign a direction, and every incoming within say, 60-90 degress of that axis gets engaged, and incoming missiles from other directions are allowed to pass. :know: |
I agree totally. CIWS has something of the same problem in real life and in real life the solution is the same as you proposed. Except you can control how wide the axis is, if it's relative to your position or fixed to a certain point, speed before becoming a "candidate" for CIWS etc. |
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MaHuJa
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 447
Location: 59.96156N 11.02255E
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Molon Labe wrote: | | MaHuJa wrote: | | Molon Labe wrote: | | Let's model the chutes then. =) |
They are in, they're just not displayed in 3d. Ever noticed how the torps slow their fall just before entering the water?
There is the fact that they would probably enter rather vertically though. |
Yeah, they'd bleed of their forward velocity quite quickly, and the "lob" wouldn't be possible. (unless the wind carried it...) |
If the chute deployed immediately, yes. But as long as it doesn't, it's a heavy object vs little drag against the air. It's only the last few hundred feet (of altitude) or so (when the chute is deployed) that would be vertical.
On the other hand, lobbing buoys - they don't have the chutes, so it's rather likely that they would hit the water hard - perhaps too hard.
(Those tend to fly 15nm+ and switch to the "deployed" "mushroom" midair) |
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Pirate
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Oeiras, PORTUGAL
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Would like to sugest the water sound for sam station at the subs. Like it is heard at the FFG! |
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Wim Libaers
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 396
Location: Flanders
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Apocal wrote: | | Molon Labe wrote: | CIWS:
You know, it really sucks when you want to put your CIWS on auto, but then it shoots at both incoming vampires, and SAMs coming from your own ships that are trying to shoot down the vamps... especially since if both a threat missile and a SAM are around, it always shoots at the SAM, and the vamp gets though. So, let's have a "threat axis" option for the CIWS. You assign a direction, and every incoming within say, 60-90 degress of that axis gets engaged, and incoming missiles from other directions are allowed to pass. :know: |
I agree totally. CIWS has something of the same problem in real life and in real life the solution is the same as you proposed. Except you can control how wide the axis is, if it's relative to your position or fixed to a certain point, speed before becoming a "candidate" for CIWS etc. |
Given that the radar can use doppler shift to determine if something is approaching or leaving you, it would make sense to just set it to attack only approaching targets. |
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MaHuJa
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 447
Location: 59.96156N 11.02255E
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Wim Libaers wrote: | | Given that the radar can use doppler shift to determine if something is approaching or leaving you, it would make sense to just set it to attack only approaching targets. |
Problem is when it's approaching from the other side - as in SAMs launched by friendly ships at missiles incoming at you. (own ships != own ship) |
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MuscleBob.Buffpants
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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The chute on the torpedo is a retarder only. It is designed to ensure that the torpedo hits the water at the right angle - if it is too flat it will possibly damage the torpedo, too steep and the transducer suffers.
I has involved with torpedo trials, including hover drops from up to 1000' which were fine for jettison, but the torpedo would have been too badly damaged for normal use.
All in all, the airborne stores side of things isn't well modelled. There should be some way of viewing the output from the Maverick seeker. It will lock onto any heat source - this would help dissuade sub drivers from thinking they are SAM sites.
How about visual detection of subs at periscope depth? Is that modelled at all? |
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