[hunter301]

I know that a lot of work went into the SCX/SCU mods for for SubCommand, my question is will all this hard work be incorporated in DW to make it as realistic as SC should have been before SCX/SCU came out?

[TLAM Strike]

SCU may not be converted over (I think we can all say we rather see SA make an DW Addon with OPFOR and others over a DWU). But SCX will be converted possably with additional models.

[XabbaRus]

Well as far as I understand it until there is a dbase editor there isn't going to be any mods possible.

Nor do I think there will be an SCU.

If you remember a post by Thomasew a few weeks back due to a misunderstanding about mods, SCS weren't too happy with SCU.

So it will be stock models until something can be sorted out.

[Pigfish]

Sad about the DWU issue but I can understand Sonalysts view. Sure hope a future add gives us the "opposites" of what we get in DW.

But I REALLY hope a DB editor comes along eventually like Ludger Styra's SCedit-and made available to all.

The ability to "personalize" my game with Ludgers editor greatly increased my enjoyment of SC/SCX/SCU. And still does.

Maybe Ludger is out there reading this...

Cant wait for DW to be in my hands.

My peers think Im nuts-but then they know me... :sunny:

[jsteed]

TLAM said it exactly right, SA can make playables much better than I can. SA has stated that it is their intention to do so if the game is a success. We should give them every opportunity. If enough people lobby for a few other, less capable craft, I would hope SA would oblige. After all they are in business, and keeping the customer happy is the first priority. Even if they charge a few bucks for the addons, it would be well worth it.

To set the record straight, I'm not sure who Tom spoke with that gave him the impression that SA was unhappy about SCU. I never got that impression from my many conversations with them.

cheers, jsteed

[Thomasew]

Hi John


I don't want to go into this in too much detail, .. as, with regards to SCU, and the circumstances surrounding it's release, ... it's really just water under the bridge.

However, if you cast your mind back to early June 2003, .. where you and I exchanged several e-mails pertaining to the release of SCU, .. based on an e-mail I had received from Sonalysts, .. wherein they expressed serious concern about SCU, ... and that such a modification to their code etc., had not been sanctioned by them, .. and was contrary to the 'agreement' we had with them.

It was one of the reasons why I sorta 'eased up' on the simultaneous release of SCX IIc/SCU as a combined mod, .. mainly because it put me firmly between a rock and a hard place.

Anyway, .. you released SCU on your own, ... which I later followed up with the release of SCX IIc, .. which provided the necessary data to support SCU.

In my most recent discussions with Sonalysts, ... whenever I steer the discussion towards mods for DW .. e.g. DWX, .. the first thing I get, ... is SCU thrown in my face, ... and the possibility that there may be a DWU, .. which is something they are not prepared to entertain. They have plans for DW, ... and having a DWU type mod, ... released by anyone ... does not sit well with those plans.

Now, .. as to why they tell you one thing, and tell me another, .. I honestly can't say. I can only think that whilst they may be happy, .. to some extent, .. with what SCU accomplished, ... they may not necessarily be happy with 'how' it did it.

Whatever the situation was or is, .. it's obvious that the 'legal eagles' at Sonalysts have ... learnt their lesson, ... as, if you read the EULA for 'Dangerous Waters' ... you will see, .. quite clearly, ... that it prohibits ANY modifications to the game. No doubt, .. one of the reasons why the EULA takes such a hard line, ... is due, ... in part, .. to mods like SCU.

However, ... EULA as it is, .. I am in discussions with them about a DWX type mod.


Cheers
Tom

[JamesT73J]

I hope you're successful in that Thomas. I would be very surprised if Sonalysts did not see the benefit in allowing limited customisation and modification of the product, because in the gaming world, that translates directly into sales. People love to tinker.

I can understand the concern at the loss of a potential revenue stream - add ons - but the most succesful model so far involves user modification, even if it's just being able to paint things or alter loadouts etc.

Cheers


James

[jsteed]

Hi Tom,
Yes, it must be the difference in speaking to the SA suits vs the programmers. I am quite surprised that they are considering not allowing you to publicly release a DWX. :down: Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face... However that does seem to be in keeping with their corporate culture.

Should this be their final position, I would have difficulty recommending DW. As you well know, like SC, DWs true potential lies in what improvements people like yourself can make... not what comes out of the box.

As for a DWU, it suits me just fine if SA would not like to see one. That saves me numerous hours in not having to create everyone's favorite boat. :sunny: It will also force the community to pressure SA to create them themselves. That should make for some interesting forum threads. :hmm:

cheers,
John

[SaxMan]

I just can't read this without chiming in....
This whole thread needs to be on the DW forum, so the proper individuals at Sonalysts see these comments that have been made already.
I for one want to throw in with and agree with those who espouse the value of SCU, SCedit, and the other mods to SC. To me there's no worth in a game that just simulates only one or two controllable platforms. One of my favorite games was Jane's Fighter's Anthology - with a little hacking you could operate nearly any type of platform in the game - all the aircraft, ships, tanks, APCs, etc. It irritates me to no end to see the developers of DW clam it up (see Thomasew's post about the DW EULA) so no one can mod it, and then say that they might develop mods "if the game is a success" (quoting JSteed). What if they don't think "the game is a success"? Then we are stuck without SCX-style mods. I wouldn't think I'd want to buy DW if this is the case (especially since I will have to upgrade my old machine to boot).
But to end this rant on a positive note - a big Thank You to all those people out there who contributed to SCX, SCU and other mods/utilities! They really made the game into a great experience, something that wouldn't have happened if all we could do was to use a forum to lobby or pressure the original developer into doing something.

SaxMan

[XabbaRus]

Isn't not buying the game throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

Sonalysts haven't said no to any mod and until the game is released and Sonalysts have chatted with Thomas then threatening not to buy the game will not help.

If not enough people buy the game Sonalysts won't even entertain the idea of producing addons for the sim. So best thing would be to buy the game, give sonalysts the incentive to create addons and then we'll see how a DWX mod could develop.

Thing is until enough people have played the sim and we can see what areas need to be addressed then talking about a mod is premature.

Sure I am making models hoping there will be a DWX but I make models just for the fun of it.

You could always swap out the old models with new ones just that animation won't work with them..

Best to wait and see...

[Molon Labe]

Who knows, maybe if we're all really, really nice, after a few expansion packs come out and they don't plan on making any more, they'll allow the DWX team to create a Platform Changing Utility

[Scion]

I think we need to remember that we are not SA's only customers... The big bucks probably come from the defence clients...

[Thomasew]

Hi Guys ...


Firstly, .. I'd like to apologise .. I had written my earlier post in extreme haste, .. as I was running late for an appointment I had ... some 300 kms away.

I didn't mean to sound as negative, .. as my post would suggest.

Quite the contrary actually, .. I very optimistic about the future of DW ... and of DWX. So much so, .. in fact, .. that I'm already putting together a preliminary DWX mod, .. which will replace many of DW's models with the ones from SCX. In addition, .. I'm making a few changes to the SCX doctrines to accommodate some additional functionality introduced with DW.

However, .. I am sorta squeezing this in, .. here and there ... when I can take some time off from my Beta testing responsibilities.

Beta Testing ? ... Huh? ... :huh:

Yes, .. even though DW has gone Gold, .. we're still testing. Plus, .. we have some ideas, .. which were put forth to the SCS Programmers, .. but, unfortunately, given the time constraints, .. the priority was to debug the game and get it released, .. and our ideas, .. or new features, .. could be incorporated in a future patch.

All part of improving the game ....

SCS definitely see a DWX mod going a long way to doing that as well. However, ... the difference now is, .. that we're working with them, ... and not without them.

A DWX mod comparable to SCX II, .. might still be a little way off however. It would be superfluous to develop DWX to the extent that SCX currently is, .. until such time as any changes and additional features have been incorporated into DW.

Not too mention the fact, ... that there are some things that we brought to SC ... via SCX, ... which I will now have to remove, .. as Sonalysts have incorporated them into DW.

Coincidence ? ... ... mebbe ... mebbe not .. :hmm:

Nice to see though ....


So, .. once you receive your 1 ton manual and game disks, ... believe me, ... the last thing you will be thinking of ... is DWX. There is more than enough in DW to keep you busy for a long time. :hmm:

... and by the time you develop an 'itch' ... DWX should be there to scratch it for you.


Happy Flying/Sailing/Diving/Sinking ... blah blah blah etc ... :8


Cheers
Tom

[Konovalov]

Things sounds much better with that post Thomas.

Xabb is right. People shouldn't spit the dummy and not buy the game. if that happens then we will all be in the poo poo with the addon and minimal after sales support through patchs.

As Tom said buy the game and play it. There is plenty to explore and by the time you have had enough god forbid DWX will be on the near horizon.

I mean come on. When I bought SC all those years ago no way was I anticipating what would come in the form of SCX, SCXII, SCXIIc and SCU. We really have been spoilt by the enormous work and thousands of frustrating man hours put in by the likes of Thomasew, Xabba, Mbot, Ramius, Jsteed, DeepSix, Mcarm and any others I have missed.

Everybody should just go out and buy the game for a start. Enjoy it and thrash the guts out of it and explore all the new and improved features over SC. And just maybe we will get our DWX mod some time down the track.

[Linton]

i have just placed an order for DW before this thread was started.Iwas hoping that Dw would develop as Sc has with help from the gaming community,I would have thought twice about buying it if i had known that development by the community was not going to be possible!Who do they think is going to sort the bugs out for them?A lot of other games rely on the community, what is sonalysts problem?perhaps we should all e mail them with our concerns?