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Cyklop
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 50
Location: visual, aural and nasal
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 Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:37 am Post subject: Which platform nationalities will be represented in DW? |
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I have been searching for an answer but couldn't find it anywhere.
The Battlefront website sounds a bit pesimistic  (to me):
| Quote: | | Over 270 surface, submarine and air units comprising 17 of the world's navies can do battle for control of the open ocean. |
While I understand that it's not only "the open ocean" one can take control of, I am afraid that my country's units might not be selectable.
Polish Navy currently operates, among others, two OHP frigates and one Kilo (877E) submarine.
I would like to be able to include them as Polish units in my future custom missions for DW.
The nuclear subs of SC aren't of much use in our shallow Baltic waters 
I hope I will not be restricted to choice of US or CN  when it could easily be a PL. |
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Angle
Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Funny. In SC I've destroyed a whole Russian fleet in Baltic waters with my 688i. |
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Pole
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 250
Location: Belfast, UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Which platform nationalities will be represented in DW? |
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| Cyklop wrote: | | Polish Navy currently operates, among others, two OHP frigates and one Kilo (877E) submarine. |
Polish Navy also operates Norwegian Kobbens (or rather modified German TYPE 207s).
Pole |
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Spectator
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 384
Location: germany
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Angle wrote: | | Funny. In SC I've destroyed a whole Russian fleet in Baltic waters with my 688i. |
a whole AI fleet  |
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Scion
Joined: 31 May 2001
Posts: 1552
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| If the same follows from SC, you will only be able to control units from the nation selected. So only US, Russian and Chinese vessels will be playable. This does not mean that you cannot play as a Polish Kilo, just stick in the Russian one, and have it defending Poland against a Russian Invasion, if you like. It will still play the same, you just need to get used to the russian interface and voices - or turn those off. |
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Beer
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 118
Location: On a Drill Ship in the Gulf of Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Spectator wrote: | | Angle wrote: | | Funny. In SC I've destroyed a whole Russian fleet in Baltic waters with my 688i. |
a whole AI fleet |
:hmm:
...while playing the preview, one of the Biohaz Staff who is a reservist ST (Sonar Tech) for a 688i made the comment how easy it was to sink the Battlegroup (in single player) in his 688i.
Finally, our schedules permitted us the opportunity for some online play, this online play was different from the "preview" write up, because it was ex P-3 guy  vs Sub guy :huh:, his feelings were he would not be detected, and he could easily wreak havoc at will...after all he was able to sink the Battlegroup :sunny:
I designed a mission, 30 nm x 30 nm "Operational Box" with random start points for three platforms, a P-3 controlled by myself, a 688i controlled by him, and a AI FFG set to kill the 688i. The 688i to kill the FFG before he gets killed by the AI FFG or my P-3. 30nm x 30 nm seems to be a good size for gameplay for about an hour, a larger 100x100 would be great but would need to be played out over a few hours. On to the gameplay.
We played a total of three games, two with him in a 688i and the third in a Akula II.
Game one, the 688i remained undetected, he located the FFG got a firing solution and promptly launched 3 missiles at the FFG, happens the P-3 was in the nieghborhood, used his missile shots as datum and launched a spread of 4 torpedo's on this datum. The 688i died a horrible death, as the AI FFG was able to defeat the incoming missiles. While running from the Torps the 688i was readily tracked.
Game two, same scenerio, while being cold on my search buoys for a short period of time, the AI FFG picked up the 688i at 8 nm and promoted the contact to link. Knowing it was an active hit from the FFG, P-3 rolled in and attacked the Link position without deploying or having any buoys in contact. First Torp on target, second torp had aquired but was not needed. 688i killed. Other games I have chased the acousic link contacts from the FFG and come up cold, the active hit I knew was a solid datum.
Game three, he played the Akula II, it was a classic detection with buoys, track and attack from the P-3. The FFG was never in the fight.
He went 0-3 that day.
The multiplayer aspect of this is great. While the 688i is stealthy, it is able to be detected and killed. Being in the right place at the right time or being spawned randomly in a good location factors into the game as well as having preset weapons and having a plan and adapting as neccessary. This will truly be a cat and mouse game of chess, with opponents errors as well as those lucky breaks exploited for the kill.
Last edited by Beer on Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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donw
Joined: 25 Dec 2001
Posts: 376
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:55 am Post subject: gratitude |
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Awesome report Mr Beers...
I have been truely burned out with "pooter games" lately....
but the potential seen here from your perspective....
has re-lit the anticipation...
thank you  |
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Cyklop
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 50
Location: visual, aural and nasal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Angle wrote: | | Funny. In SC I've destroyed a whole Russian fleet in Baltic waters with my 688i. |
 A whole Russian fleet? Atlantic or Pacific?
By the way, if you refer to the mission "Baltic Battle" by 555, you have been mislead Its action takes place in the Barents Sea, which has nothing to do with the Baltic.
The average depth in the Baltic Sea is 55 metres (or 180 feet), so in many cases your 688i could be dragging its towed array over the bottom.
And there would be no depths to hide in.
I am interested in simulating operations where Kilos could be used in their primary role (Anti Surface Warfare) with OHPs providing ASW assets against the hostile subs. |
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Angle
Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:44 am Post subject: |
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lol. Make your own mission in the Baltic. I'm sure you're more than capable on taking on the AI. And deploy your towed array as much as you can get away with.
The AI isn't that hard to take advantage of. Even with their 360 degree active intercept, cavitation only once, your range with esm, etc..
The hard part is other players. |
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Rip
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Beer wrote: | | Spectator wrote: | | Angle wrote: | | Funny. In SC I've destroyed a whole Russian fleet in Baltic waters with my 688i. |
a whole AI fleet |
:hmm:
...while playing the preview, one of the Biohaz Staff who is a reservist ST (Sonar Tech) for a 688i made the comment how easy it was to sink the Battlegroup (in single player) in his 688i.
Finally, our schedules permitted us the opportunity for some online play, this online play was different from the "preview" write up, because it was ex P-3 guy vs Sub guy :huh:, his feelings were he would not be detected, and he could easily wreak havoc at will...after all he was able to sink the Battlegroup :sunny:
I designed a mission, 30 nm x 30 nm "Operational Box" with random start points for three platforms, a P-3 controlled by myself, a 688i controlled by him, and a AI FFG set to kill the 688i. The 688i to kill the FFG before he gets killed by the AI FFG or my P-3. 30nm x 30 nm seems to be a good size for gameplay for about an hour, a larger 100x100 would be great but would need to be played out over a few hours. On to the gameplay.
We played a total of three games, two with him in a 688i and the third in a Akula II.
Game one, the 688i remained undetected, he located the FFG got a firing solution and promptly launched 3 missiles at the FFG, happens the P-3 was in the nieghborhood, used his missile shots as datum and launched a spread of 4 torpedo's on this datum. The 688i died a horrible death, as the AI FFG was able to defeat the incoming missiles. While running from the Torps the 688i was readily tracked.
Game two, same scenerio, while being cold on my search buoys for a short period of time, the AI FFG picked up the 688i at 8 nm and promoted the contact to link. Knowing it was an active hit from the FFG, P-3 rolled in and attacked the Link position without deploying or having any buoys in contact. First Torp on target, second torp had aquired but was not needed. 688i killed. Other games I have chased the acousic link contacts from the FFG and come up cold, the active hit I knew was a solid datum.
Game three, he played the Akula II, it was a classic detection with buoys, track and attack from the P-3. The FFG was never in the fight.
He went 0-3 that day.
The multiplayer aspect of this is great. While the 688i is stealthy, it is able to be detected and killed. Being in the right place at the right time or being spawned randomly in a good location factors into the game as well as having preset weapons and having a plan and adapting as neccessary. This will truly be a cat and mouse game of chess, with opponents errors as well as those lucky breaks exploited for the kill. |
That's why he's a sonarman. No boat commander in his right mind would launch missle with a P3 in the area. P3s can be very effective especially against an enemy in such a little box. Sounds like he still would have got the first one if he would have closed and used some MK48s on him. P3 still would have detected launch and killed him. Take the P3 out and throw in a few maore targets and the sub would have probably one as well.
Man I can see it coming. There are going to be some studly battles started from discussion in the forums. What you don't believe me! You wanna take it outside? You know out to the ocean  |
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Bograt
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| The fights are going to be good. I am glad Beer came out on top. I lost sleep about the P-3 loss during the multiplayer test in November. |
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Smuook
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 112
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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The P-3 loss was during multiplayer testing where the boundaries and realism of the weapons, countermeasures, etc... where being explored.
The P-3 has the advantage... trust me  |
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sonar732
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 1358
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:17 am Post subject: |
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I take the sonarman comment personally
I wouldn't have even bothered with the missiles either against a ship. One of the favorite complaints for Sub Command was the scenerio of a 688 or Seawolf against the Russian SAG. Most people try to launch a flury of TASM's and complain that the tactic doesn't work. Well....DUH! I would've stuck with the ADCAP since it wouldn't have taken much to take out the OHP. |
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Three14
Joined: 23 Feb 2001
Posts: 575
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, sounds like a rookie player (though possibly an excellent sonar operator). I'm a little surprised that he wasn't able to evade any torps.
I complain when shooting TASMs worked. Good that the Frigate took them out this time. Takes the spirit out of the game when the stupid things are effective. Unless the stupid things are fun...that's okay.
In a 30x30 box...I'd be a little worried because the torps can run almost the entire distance of the box (unless you can run outside when evading). |
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Scion
Joined: 31 May 2001
Posts: 1552
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:10 am Post subject: |
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I would also like to know the water depth in the test... Was the 688 Practically Broaching? What about SSP... In SC I can usually score a Fig at >30 nmi... Then its the question - "Should I launch missiles, A fast torpedo, or a slow torpedo?"
In this sort of situation, I would shoot a slow ADCAP as deep as possible, and stick my sub on a lag bearing and clear datum, with a 10 or 15 knot SOA...
Counter-Fire from the FFG would be Irrelavant, due to the useless range of the Mk. 46 and 50. By the time the fish was detected, I would be 5 nmi from datum, and any P-3 or MH-60 will have the chance to drop fish into cold, hard water....  |
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