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Bograt
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:08 pm Post subject: Silly sub question |
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I am not a sub guy and this may be a silly question. I apologize in advance if it is. I do not want to tip toe into OPSEC, so please ignore if it does.
I heard stories of old Canadian subs "resting on the bottom" (purposely  ). Is this correct, and if so do other navies use this tactic? Is this tactic used in modern sub sims?
Cheers, |
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Spectator
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 384
Location: germany
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| if you go on ground you risk damaging your boat badly, because you can never know if there are some sharp rocks or stuff like that, or maybe you get stuck in the sand because sea bottom can be like quicksand. another disadvantage: you can't use your towed array anymore. |
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Scion
Joined: 31 May 2001
Posts: 1552
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Thats not correct spectator... and this has been raised earlier...
Some navys routinely practice grounding their diesel boats... many of which do not have towed arrays anyway... The sub does not push down very hard on the sand... the trim is simply adjusted to give a slight negative boyancy, this provides all that is required to hold the boat on the ground. This cannot be done with nucs - the coolant pumps have to run 24/7, and grounding the boat risks sucking mud and other contaminants into the system. |
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Some SSNs (and I guess some SS(K)s) have been modified to sit on the seabed, such as Halibut. But as Scion said its risky, even if they have Halibut style skids. |
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Smuook
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 112
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Peruvian 209's are rumored to be somewhat proficient at bottoming |
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Thomasew
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 2737
Location: Bluewater Bay, South Africa
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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.. as are the Australian Collins class Subs. 
I wouldn't necessarily say they are proficient at it, as that would suggest that some sort of skill was involved  ... rather, .. it's something they do quite naturally.
Cheers
Tom |
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Fish
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 2412
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Thomasew wrote: | .. as are the Australian Collins class Subs.
I wouldn't necessarily say they are proficient at it, as that would suggest that some sort of skill was involved ... rather, .. it's something they do quite naturally.
Cheers
Tom |
He he, you couldn't ignore the chance Tom?  |
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diver
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 194
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | .. as are the Australian Collins class Subs.
I wouldn't necessarily say they are proficient at it, as that would suggest that some sort of skill was involved ... rather, .. it's something they do quite naturally. |
when has a collins ever sunk or bottomed, get over that crap its old and untrue. |
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Scion
Joined: 31 May 2001
Posts: 1552
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Accept the collins bashing and get over it :shifty: |
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Ramius
Joined: 31 May 2001
Posts: 4092
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Scion wrote: | | Accept the collins bashing and get over it :shifty: |
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Lt. Staumeier
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 102
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:38 am Post subject: |
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@ everyone
You really take your subs personally, don't you
Well, I'm swede so I don't have many subs to be proud of  . The Gotland, however, is quite nice. Though not very suited for deep sea operation. |
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diver
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 194
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Accept the collins bashing and get over it |
no, bash something that deserves it. The canadian subs are troubled, almost sank a month or two ago and a crewman was killed, russian subs are constantly sinking, a year or two ago a chinese sub had an accident and everybody on board died, why bash the collins that has never had a major accident and nobody has ever been hurt on one, and they perform very well. Is it jealousy or just idiotism that drives collins bashing, cause it sure isn't anything wrong with the collins. There are many ferked up sub in the oceans, the collins class are not any of them, so give it a rest.
Seriously what drives collins bashing? i cant see any reason for it |
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Scion
Joined: 31 May 2001
Posts: 1552
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Because it sorts the men from the boys... as evident here. |
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Fish
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 2412
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: | | Quote: | | Accept the collins bashing and get over it |
no, bash something that deserves it. The canadian subs are troubled, almost sank a month or two ago and a crewman was killed, russian subs are constantly sinking, a year or two ago a chinese sub had an accident and everybody on board died, why bash the collins that has never had a major accident and nobody has ever been hurt on one, and they perform very well. Is it jealousy or just idiotism that drives collins bashing, cause it sure isn't anything wrong with the collins. There are many ferked up sub in the oceans, the collins class are not any of them, so give it a rest.
Seriously what drives collins bashing? i cant see any reason for it |
He Diver, this is an everlasting joke, you are here for to short a time to understand.  \
There are more....let me think, beer was involved if I remember right. :hmm: |
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diver
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 194
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | He Diver, this is an everlasting joke, you are here for to short a time to understand.
There are more....let me think, beer was involved if I remember right. |
but if stupid jokes like these make australians doubt therir navy, and not want to join because of this mis-information then it is damaging. I won't get over it when i know people who have told their family members not to join because of they beleive crap like this (even though sub service is voluntary), so i can't just accept it as a joke. When public opinion is turning against the governent in military procurment and spending money on new things, and the pacifists use the collins as an example of why we shouldnt build up our military i can't take this stuff as a joke.
Maybe in Europe you can think of your navies as a status simble, but down here we need everything and everybody, Austrlia is the eye in a very dangerous storm, so i wont handle our subs being doubted by our own people. So it maybe just a joke here, but it extends far deeper in Australia, that is why i cannot let it slide. |
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