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Zerogreat
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 819
Location: Czech Republic, Prague, coordinates are sumthin like 50,10 North 14,25 East, not much accurate
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 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Nice avatar, Martin  |
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Ramius
Joined: 31 May 2001
Posts: 4092
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Zerogreat wrote: | | Nice avatar, Martin |
Indeed it is 
And just incase it changes before he sees it.....
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Martin
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm,
I think I had too much to drink!
 :nope: |
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tramker
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Now new station screenshots are up and it's clear that all subs got an old-style ESM, WHY ??? If the devs don't want to redesign sub interfaces, why not show just an emitter in the ESM ?
In fact all SC's subs haven't been touched, I hoped for better sonar classification too, can be very tiresome with loads of ships as in SCX. |
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OKO
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 468
Location: Solar system, mainly on earth
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| tramker wrote: | Now new station screenshots are up and it's clear that all subs got an old-style ESM, WHY ??? If the devs don't want to redesign sub interfaces, why not show just an emitter in the ESM ?
In fact all SC's subs haven't been touched, I hoped for better sonar classification too, can be very tiresome with loads of ships as in SCX. |
Anyway, where is the big deal ?
If you have the type of emitter you KNOW if it's friendly or ennemy, you even KNOW the type of ship (fregate have not the same as carrier)... so you just miss the exact type of ship but you have all informations about what kind of military power it will need.
So where is the big deal ? There is not at all tramker...
You should have mentionned this to be fair ...
New modelised plateform just enhance this feature, as you probably saw, the only thing différent on previous SSN is the new SAM station.
But it's REALLY not a big deal, and it will change STRICLY NOTHING to the result ...
Just the new ESM is more realistic, but there is no advantage for SSN ... |
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sonar732
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 1358
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| tramker wrote: |
In fact all SC's subs haven't been touched, I hoped for better sonar classification too, can be very tiresome with loads of ships as in SCX. |
Better sonar classification? Do you rely on auto crew sonar? If you do, that is your first mistake. When playing Sub Command, the first station that you need to master is SONAR. |
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Smuook
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 112
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Ramius wrote: |
And just incase it changes before he sees it.....
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That's a classic  |
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tramker
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| sonar732 wrote: |
Better sonar classification? Do you rely on auto crew sonar? If you do, that is your first mistake. When playing Sub Command, the first station that you need to master is SONAR. |
No, I wrote classification, not autocrew  . Have you tried to classify two overlapping signals ? The included filter doesn't work, you need to find the right one manualy, which means listing through all classes and there are a lot of them. We need some kind of filter to limit thenumber of offered classes. Simple limiting by nationality and type (surface, sub) would be enough. |
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sonar732
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 1358
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| tramker wrote: | | sonar732 wrote: |
Better sonar classification? Do you rely on auto crew sonar? If you do, that is your first mistake. When playing Sub Command, the first station that you need to master is SONAR. |
No, I wrote classification, not autocrew . Have you tried to classify two overlapping signals ? The included filter doesn't work, you need to find the right one manualy, which means listing through all classes and there are a lot of them. We need some kind of filter to limit thenumber of offered classes. Simple limiting by nationality and type (surface, sub) would be enough. |
I have "tried" to classify overlapping signals...it was my job. I know that there's an Excel spreadsheet out there somewhere that includes all of the narrowband signatures of platforms in SC...my suggestion would be to find it, memorize the warships and submarines and you'll be a better player. It all goes down to my last sentence though....the first station that needs to be mastered is sonar.  |
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Martin
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hi.
> Anyway, where is the big deal ?
> If you have the type of emitter you KNOW if it's friendly or
> ennemy, you even KNOW the type of ship (fregate have not the
> same as carrier)... so you just miss the exact type of ship but you
> have all informations about what kind of military power it will
> need.
>
> So where is the big deal ?
I looked at the Perry's screenies:
... and I noticed that it has a "DEMON" option. Demon is used to
determine speed based on turns-per-knot to get the correct range
in the target motion analysis.
ESM is one of the longest range classification tools available.
If the ESM is "magic" and spits out the exact platform type then
the DEMON turns-per-knot value can be known exactly which
means that long range TMA against one low frequency SONAR
line will be very accurate.
If the ESM is ambiguous, then the platform will not be known, and
the shortlisted platform carrying a particular emitter type may
have different turns-per-knot values. Thus, long range TMA in
this case cannot be so accurate.
That is the tactical advantage to which I refer. |
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OKO
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 468
Location: Solar system, mainly on earth
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Martin wrote: |
If the ESM is ambiguous, then the platform will not be known, and
the shortlisted platform carrying a particular emitter type may
have different turns-per-knot values. Thus, long range TMA in
this case cannot be so accurate.
That is the tactical advantage to which I refer. |
You should knew every warship except carriers have a TPK of 8, Martin ...
If you know the emitter type, you have ALL you need to engage firepower : THIS could have been the real problem, and not the TPK ... all TPK at 8 for warship I repeat, so it will change nothing to the TMA at all.
The only real problem you could encounter is to have the same emitter on a KIROV and on UDALOY (for example), cause you need more firepower on KIROV.
But I'm pretty sure this will not be the same emitter, as KIROV use the shipwreck, and need a very powerfull emitter to find distant contact, certainly different emitter from others ships.
Of course, I would have prefered, as you, the same ESM for all (like the new one), but this will change absolutly NOTHING to the way you are going to manage it.
There is not tactical advantage at all, sorry ...
For the TMA, I never used autocrew, so I can tell you I exactly know what I'm talking about, that's why I know warship TPK is always 8 ... in sub command anyway ... |
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Martin
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, OKO.
As long as all surface combatants have a common TPK, then
I agree with you of course. I didn't know if Sonalysts would
vary the TPK for surface combatants in DW, to make life more
interesting...
- M. |
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OKO
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 468
Location: Solar system, mainly on earth
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| tramker wrote: | | sonar732 wrote: |
Better sonar classification? Do you rely on auto crew sonar? If you do, that is your first mistake. When playing Sub Command, the first station that you need to master is SONAR. |
No, I wrote classification, not autocrew . Have you tried to classify two overlapping signals ? The included filter doesn't work, you need to find the right one manualy, which means listing through all classes and there are a lot of them. We need some kind of filter to limit thenumber of offered classes. Simple limiting by nationality and type (surface, sub) would be enough. |
Well, when you have a big list, this mean the faint signal don't give you enought informations to know exactly the exact kind of plateform.
But just don't forget to use EVERY informations you have !
example : you have a US ship, and you know, with brief, your ennemy is chinese => you just have to read chinese ship in your list !
Classification is not to only read the narrowband, it's also to use all others informations you can have to reduce the search
It's near always easy to find out the real type if you use all the information you can collect.
Read the briefing carefully, looking where you are (indian sea ? groenland ?) and using every single information you have to limit the search to the real possible type.
Act like a cop, don't just simply read the narrowband 
Last edited by OKO on Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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OKO
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 468
Location: Solar system, mainly on earth
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Martin wrote: | Hi, OKO.
As long as all surface combatants have a common TPK, then
I agree with you of course. I didn't know if Sonalysts would
vary the TPK for surface combatants in DW, to make life more
interesting...
- M. |
Well, I think Sonalyst didn't used the same TPK for warship because it will be easier, but because it is true like that.
I'm not sure of it, but I don't see why they would have made false one on warship and different ones on other ships ...
So I think it's real value |
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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If you guys would care to remember in SC you didn't always get the ESM classifcation listed right away. Occasonly you would just get E1 listed altho at the nave screen the contact appeared. Now SA may just have set it up like this for subs. You don't get the class right away you have to mark a few sweaps by the radar untill you get the class.
Or maybe they will add this feature a little latter- the game is not yet finished. |
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