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Martin
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:39 pm Post subject: Why do the subs resolve the platform in ESM ? |
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Hi.
I was wondering why the MH-60R helicopter's ESM can only
determine the possible sources of ESM based on emitter type:
Yet the Akula sub is able to tell exactly what platform the
emitter is:
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe it just hasn't been added yet... |
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OKO
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 468
Location: Solar system, mainly on earth
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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On the right side of the screen, isn't it the emitter displayed ? and the possible plateform concerned ?
looks like more realistic than the direct type of the ship, no ? |
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Martin
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, TLAM.
I hope you're right.
The playing field will be unbalanced if the sub drivers are able
to tell exactly what platform the emitter is, yet the helo drivers
are only able to shortlist possible platforms.
OKO, it's a matter of realism versus playability.
In real life, the ESM systems do not just say "Fishing boat at
060", nor do they even say "JRC 1500 Radar at 060, might be
a fishing boat or a trawler or a cruise ship". In real life, the ESM
systems just show any and all received radar energy, and perform
signal analysis on it.
There is no database of radar manufacturers which is automatically
cross-referenced, or anything like that... you can just tell what band
the radar energy is in (J band, X band, etc), and you can process it
like:
The interface chosen for the MH-60R and the Akula are in fact
tradeoffs for realism and playability... I'm just raising the point that
they are not equivalent... the Akula's ESM seems to be more
"magic" than the helo's ESM. |
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Ramius
Joined: 31 May 2001
Posts: 4092
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Martin wrote: | ...... In real life, the ESM
systems just show any and all received radar energy, and perform
signal analysis on it.
There is no database of radar manufacturers which is automatically
cross-referenced, or anything like that... you can just tell what band
the radar energy is in (J band, X band, etc), and you can process it
like...... |
Are you completly sure about this :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: |
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Martin
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm,
Not 100%, no.
Just going by the public domain info I was able to find
about the AN/WLR-8 receiver. I was using resources like:
http://www.rdsi.com/
https://ewhdbks.mugu.navy.mil/contents.htm
Maybe the output from these receivers is fed into an integrated
combat system with databases of electronic signatures... but if
so it's classified enough that causal googling didn't turn up
anything... |
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compressioncut
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Martin wrote: | Hmm,
Maybe the output from these receivers is fed into an integrated
combat system with databases of electronic signatures... but if
so it's classified enough that causal googling didn't turn up
anything... |
I confess to not being closed up at all on how the ESM dorks do what they do, but they are certainly able to classify the emitter on huge numbers of stuff, and without doing a great deal of analysis - they often don't have much, if any time, to do so, after all.
Radar plotter yells (screams, actually) "Popup bearing 253 twenty-two miles!!"
ESM weiner blows his referee's whistle and screams "Zippo one based on Sunburn!!" Or whatever.
Surface, submarine, airplane radars are the same.
The orginal poster's example is a little misleading - it may be that the Neustrashimy has an emitter unique to the class, whereas the SPS-55 is carried by god only knows how many types of ship. |
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Bubblehead555
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 148
Location: Omaha, Nebraska - USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:13 pm Post subject: K, wild thought .... |
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While the SPS-56 is carried on all the 'listed' platforms .. could the Neustrashimy have a 'unique' radar or fire control system?
... is the sub's esm shot from a 'single hit' classification, or has it been 'sucking up' 'trons for some time and 'paging through it's internal classification guide' while the 'roto suite has just picked up the emitter? |
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: K, wild thought .... |
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| Bubblehead555 wrote: | | While the SPS-56 is carried on all the 'listed' platforms .. could the Neustrashimy have a 'unique' radar or fire control system? |
The Sovermenny and Udaloy has the Same Surface search and Firec Ctrol Radars. (Sov dosn't hav the Cross Sword FC Radar tho) |
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Looney11
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 307
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:02 am Post subject: |
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There's another topic about this all. Modern day navies have their ESM receiver hooked up to database with all the threats and COI listed within the area the unit is about to deploy.
So, based on the pictures of the MH60 and Akula, I would say the MH60 ESM screen resembles real life the best in my opinion.
I'll see if i can dig up the old topic.
Ah, got it : http://207.44.164.159/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=25353&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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Martin
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Hi.
Well I looked at the original thread and saw a screen capture
of an ESM screen in there, but when I compared it to the ESM
screen just uploaded to the DW website, it looked just like
"Sub Command"...
Actually I notice that the screenshots of Akula & seawolf have
been removed from the DW website now...
I suppopse we'll just have to wait and see...
but for me I'd be happy if the Akula & seawolf ESM ends up
looking like the MH-60's ESM, listing known classes... |
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WasteXTC
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Awww, how cute. A ULQ-16 screenie! |
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timmyg00
Joined: 11 Jan 2001
Posts: 1003
Location: The People's Republic of Massachusetts, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| compressioncut wrote: | | I confess to not being closed up at all on how the ESM dorks do what they do, but they are certainly able to classify the emitter on huge numbers of stuff, and without doing a great deal of analysis - they often don't have much, if any time, to do so, after all. |
ESM dorks???
I resemble that remark!!! 
There are indeed computerized emitter libraries built into modern ESM systems, and they are getting better and better at analysis and classification, as well as having built-in DF functions. When I was leaving the U.S. Navy, the 688s were getting the ADF system, which is what it appears is being modeled in all of the subs. The system would display a classification list and a bearing to the contact... of course, it would be up to the operator to perform a sanity check to verify the system's classification - same as any other sensor.
TG |
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Ramius
Joined: 31 May 2001
Posts: 4092
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Martin wrote: | .....Actually I notice that the screenshots of Akula & seawolf have been removed from the DW website now...
I suppopse we'll just have to wait and see...... |
They still look like they are there to me
Seems for some reason the Battlefront site is getting updated before the "proper" site
http://www.battlefront.com/products/dw/index.html
See if anyone can notice the missing part from Battlefronts version of the DW site  |
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Martin
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Yes, you're right I got the screenshots back on the BF website.
So I went looking for the ESM screen posted in the original
thread:
... but it's not there... from the style of the 'mark' button I'm
guessing it might be the Perry's "Electronic Warfare" screen.
Now I'm just wondering if the subs will have thier ESMs changed
in the same way...
... I hope so ... |
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