[oscar19681]

this is the crew poll. crew,s on deck and stuff is possible , just check out the virtual skipper demo .

[Sailor Steve]

I'm on record as wanting the broken parts fixed before the eye candy gets applied. Dinner first, dessert after. But if they can add something like those screen shots and still have the rest work right, I say put sailors everywhere, and people on the docks when you get home!

[R Hardman]

With a realism option to disable the crew images.

[Karl-Friedrich Merten]

Agreed. A crew is pure eye candy.

I want functionality and software routines that work and don't need multiple patches; a SAVE routine that doesn't kill off the AI destroyers, my log, my contacts, and who knows what else.

Programmers have only so much time to spend on a project.

BOTTOM LINE: MORE MEAT; FEWER PEAS

[Oskar]

[Drebbel]

Yeah, what a difference when compared to AOD. That even had a band that welcomed you back !

[CB..]

yes the homecoming/leaving port scenes in AOTD allways leave me wanting more of the same..what does it matter that the band on the dockside are made of probably less than 20 pixels per figure and are little more than vague shapes...it makes no difference at all to the effect of that scene...entirely in 2d yur sub is a simle 2d image sliding acroos the background ..only animation on yur sub are the flags..fantastic....evry time i see those scens i cant help thinking just how much fun could be had in a subsim that simply displayed the entire game in such a fashion...SH1 used 2d simple images as destroyers merchants ports etc..if AOTD useed the style of graphics used for those cutscenes thru-out the entire game i very much doubt if any-one would ever stop playing it..but and heres the point..they opted for more cutting edge (at the time) 3d model files and graphics and unfortunately the game has become increasingly dated over time graphically as a result...we are all used to 2d images illustration type graphics and so on being used in graphic novels etc and enjoy them well enough for what they are.. (they are even deliberatelty emulating comic book graphics in variuos games and of course claiming new cutting edge tech is neccesary to view them ..) so why not future proof a game by making it entirely in 2d (we know it can be done and done very very effectively indeed) , good 2d illustration never gets out of date..never goes out of fashion ;/

i'd personally be over joyed to play a sim that looked as well as those cut scenes for AOTD and wouldnt give a hoot that it was in 2d , what ever they decide to do they should allways remember that theres more than one way to skin a cat..lets not forget that the best graphics we have ever seen tend to have been experienced whilst being fully emmersed in a good book...and they have no graphics at all !!! except the fully holographic 7d image creation utility somewhere inbetween our ears...
basically give that "between the ears" graphics card the right imput and it will do the rest....i'd love to experience that sense of "book like" emmersion from a game...and games like AOTD hint at it being possible...so it's frustrating to see games move ever further and further away from excercising the creative imagination and full blown graphical excelleration provided in shop by the oldest most advanced PC on the planet..the old noggin box..

yes lets have a virtual crew....but unfortunately what is liable (perhaps) to happen is that as folks have pointed out programming and modeling fully animated 3d crew members is liable to take u too much of the Dev teams time..(?) but instead of compromising and saying ok fair enough...make them in 2d it's quick it's reliable and we allready know how to do it quickly and cheaply..we are liable to end up with nothing....so what seems to be happening graphically in new games is that the devs seem to have the philosphy thatif they cant gve us the desired elements in some new uber cutting edge fashion then we aint getting it at all....which is plain daft if yu ask me...game wise and finacially..two weeks after getting the game home after any and all of the novelty has worn of and we are starting to get to grips with the real experience of playing the game...it wont matter a dang wether those virtual crew members are 2d or not...but it will have a effect on the overall emmersion/gameplay we experience if they are not there in any form whatsover...we'd all go potty if they didnt include invisable crew members repeating the control commands...shouting ship spotted or torpedoe tube loaded etc..(and they are in fact virtual crew members even if only heard via the sound files rather than seen) so it's just a matter of distinguishig between those elements that are just pure eye candy and those that have an impact on the gameplay long term...virtual crew no matter how simply depicted in game will effect the way we experience the game..and give a huge shovel full of fuel for the old brain box on board graphics card to get to grips with...unless thats just mine?

[Heibges]

Its interesting you say that, because 2D side-scrolling fighting games, are still huge in Japan, but basically dead in the USA in favor of 3D Fighters.

...and you always had some seaguls to greet you at the dock in SH1!

[AS]

So 2d makes your game experience better, go figure! Are you actually referring to a subsim simulation or a photo-storyboard adventure?

I´d love to see this 2d subsim, really.

I surely wouldn´t give a cent for it, though, I mean, I also love to see cars from 1901 and steamships in a museum, which doesn´t result in me driving around in a horse cart or crossing the British channel in Columbus´ Santa Maria....

Welcome to nowadays. AS

[CB..]

you keep missing the point AS!

your screen is only capable of displaying 2d images....evry game you have is displayed in 2d even if it is created using 3d model files...the rest is an illusion

[Drebbel]

[CB..]

:wink: but your computer screen isnt...do yu see what im getting at?
the images may be being created in real time and be referenced from fully 3d model files but it doent make a jot of difference
as (at present and for the foreseable future)) it still has to be displayed on a completely 2d computer screen... try standing behind yur montior and seeing how much of the backside of yur 3d models yu can see..he he!! :wink:


and that makes it an illusion which places it well within the rules and techniques devised over many centurys for depicting 3d scenes on a 2d surface , ie traditional FINE ART....and art achieves far greater graphical 2d realism simply using colour and nothing else...wether its a blank piece of canvas or pixels arranged on a cathode tube (or whatever is used these days LCD etc) it's resolutely stubbornly and indisputably two dimensional;

you could for a more modern comparison think of FILM which again is 3d images recorded on and projected onto a 2d medium , yu cant pop round the back of the screen and see whats going on behind the actors..

but frankly the issue isnt wether anyone wants good graphics (it's a cinch to say we all want the best that can be provided at the time) the issue is the techniques used to generate those graphics...i say that the game devs are coerced by the graphic cards developers into using their new cards effects in order to assure the buying public is provided with sufficient motivation to buy their latest graphics card....bean counting at its most cynical.....equally effective results could be achieved using older hardware...i question the desire to have the latest thing and wonder just how much of it is down to the trendy hype and how much is actually down to the actual in game results....even the games industry itself is questioning the point of expending huge amounts of money for what are really very very minor enhancments to graphic card performance these days...(yet were still staring at cartoon style graphics in most new games)
well i say if we are forced to live with cartoon style graphics in even the most cutting edge games...let them at least do cartoon style properly!!!

who do they want to be long term? Rembrandt...? Stanley kubrick? or Walt Disney? if its walt disney then why bother with high end graphics?

[AS]

Thanks so much for pointing out to me that, quote, "your screen is only capable of displaying 2d". I wouldn´t have guessed, really. And now go and get a dictionary, look at one of those 2 dimensional pages and look up the definiton of the terms "2d" and "3d" in computer graphics.

You live you learn

AS

[Drebbel]

CB are you really sure that computer games are an illusion ??

[Rydox]

just an illusion? Say it isn't true!

oh and for the poll,

yes, I want a virtual crew. I cant help myself, I'm just shallow.

There is alot of talk here about giving up this for that. Graphics, gameplay, realism.

I want to be on record as saying I want all of it.

Why would they go the extra mile if they think "oh they will be happy with half of what we can give them" and still make the same money.

I hope they make a good game to the best of thier abilities and turn a good profit.

Lets just not make it to easy for them by saying we will be just as happy with less.