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AS
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 573
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:20 pm Post subject: 3D interiour and sea action |
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Hi all,
thereīs a debate going on (again) about graphics and AI with a lot of guys stating that graphics are not so important as AI. I donīt want to go into it here, but I would like to have done with this "Oh we simmers cannot expect the dev team to create good graphics"-gossip.
I do not understand why it doesnīt seem to be possible to have a proper 3D interiour for instance. Itīs a shame to the whole genre that even in a ego-shooter like Medal of Honour they were able to design a whole U-Boat IN GREAT DETAIL just for a five minute sequence of gameplay (you get in, shoot some four or five enemys, place some bombs and get the hell out of it..)
Now this proves that it cannot be such a problem to develop a confined 50 meters tube you can walk within while your ordinary shooter games simulate huge areas, buildings, even battleships (see Call of Duty) or, as I said, U-Boats...
Please donīt tell me that subsims donīt have the budget - compared to what other games do our subsims are just poor.
Talking about graphics, I wonder why UbiSoft doesnīt use the EXCELLENT, almost photo-realistic wave-engine they used in Pirates of the Caribean (sorry for my spelling). I believe this one was tops and canīt be beaten easily. Wouldnīt it be possible to implement it instead of developing a new engine? I know SH3 design has only just begun, butr looking at the poutside screenshots I am already under the (bad) impression that this one is going to look highly unrealistic AGAIN! Nice, yes, but rather like a well-painted oil-picture than what is referred to as "reality"...
Sorry if I sound rather negative, itīs only that Iīm one of those frustrated SH2 forum posters some years ago... ījust scared it could end up de-ja-vu again.
Cheers, AS |
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Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 1262
Location: NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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... no, you don't sound negative at all.
as a matter of fact, seeing that UBoat interior in MOH was what really spurred me on with my stuff...
that was sooo neat... being able to explore the entire sub from bow to stern...
... but you've gotta keep in mind, modeling a static, still interior is worlds apart from modeling a 'moving' interior with pitching deck, character and wall collisions, coordinated sounds from the equipment inside as well as ships sourrounding the sub, and the ambient sea sounds... and getting into a game...
it took me months to get this aspect up and working, not to mention, working fast enough to run on a mid range pc...
to be honest, this one of the biggest hurdles i had to overcome...
i can't say what the SH3 dev team went through, but I'm sure we can expect some really good stuff from them too 
in short, you will be getting a full 3D interior, with rolling and pitching deck on the surface, and more...
... from at least somebody, in the next few weeks :know:
--Mike |
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Jester107th
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 1130
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: 3D interiour and sea action |
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| AS wrote: | | . Itīs a shame to the whole genre that even in a ego-shooter like Medal of Honour they were able to design a whole U-Boat IN GREAT DETAIL just for a five minute sequence of gameplay (you get in, shoot some four or five enemys, place some bombs and get the hell out of it..) |
Let me say that was the gosh-darnedest hardest mission for me in MOHAA up until the landing at Normandy. (which I am still stuck on). Getting in...easy. Planting the bombs and eliminating the interior guards...a snap. Getting out of the u-boat alive before it blew...confoundingly hard! Think I completed that part with a health bar of 1 by the time I finally succeeded. Sheez!
I agree that it can be done as AS describes...it's just a matter of how much effort the company puts into a game. It may be hard, but not impossible. |
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Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 1262
Location: NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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if you think that getting out is hard... wait till you try makin your way through the pen and out...
... BIG FUN!!!
hey, after i got in the sub, and eliminated all the crew, i didn't want to leave...
i stayed in there for over a half an hour looking at all the neat stuff, and how they did it...
Hints: when you leave, you have to have a lot of health, and the machine gun loaded and ready... when you get to the top of the tower, jump... run to the gang plank, and shoot the officer approaching, crouch, and head immediately to the 55 gallon drum in front of your(to your left) and stay there (until you can get your finger to the quick save button)...
after that, you can figure out what to do next 
Normandy... stay behind (in line with) the pylons... that's the key...
... your still gonna die
MOH definitely one of the best...
--Mike |
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mystery meat
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 268
Location: Little Rhody
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps I can help you to survive Normandy. Immediately after you get out of the Higgins boat there is a tiny bit of tank obstacle sticking out of the water. It doesnt look like it will give you cover, but it will. Get behind it and wait until you no longer hear the constant drumming of bullets on the other side. Move to the next nearest cover, and again wait for the stream of bullets to stop. Try to make it to the medic helping the wounded man to get some health, and bind your "holster weapon" (or something like that) key, to put away your weapon to run faster. Remember: cover to next nearest cover. The MG's will get a bead on you and repeatedly hit the opposite side of your cover, and when they stop, run on. If you can manage it, try to follow the captain. Once you get the formula down it is a joy to replay that level taking everything in and hearing what the soldiers are saying.
And if you think THAT level is impressive, pick up Call of Duty. That game has the level of intensity of the Omaha mission spread out for a good 8 hours non-stop! (or more if you die a lot.) Good luck! |
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Rydox
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 27
Location: Connecticut USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree with you. I have played and enjoyed almost all subsims to date but they all lacked one very important aspect.
Immersion.
I play alot of other sims, mostly flight. Currently playing MS FS2004 and I love it. Why? Because it makes me feel like I am in an airplane.
All the subsims so far, while enjoyable, never gave me a feeling of
"I'm there. I'm really in a submarine"
It always felt more like remote controlling an R/C sub.
While things like a dynamic campaign and realistic features are important to me, eye candy is too. To me that means a fully 3D interior that I can move around in during play. Also, while on the bridge the scale of the sub needs to feel right, and the sea needs to be believable.
I believe that simulators need to simulate the experiece of being there.
Just my two cents.... |
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Neal Stevens
Joined: 25 Jan 1997
Posts: 3517
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I believe that simulators need to simulate the experiece of being there. |
I understand what you're saying and I do agree. Of course graphics are important, they are what we see on those big monitors we paid $$$ for, and they are the main interaction with the game. The better, more realistic the graphics are, the better the experience, the easier to imagine you are "there". 
I know what the "AI is important" guys are saying, too. Unquestionably, without good AI, all we have is a pretty cut-scene. No AI, no game. :nope:
I think most players want a subsim with good/great graphics and sounds, coupled with great AI, realistic physics and ship modeling, and enough random elements in the campaign to keep it interesting and replayable. It's a big task but that's what it takes to create a modern "Aces of the Deep". |
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NeonSamurai
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| Neal Stevens wrote: | | I think most players want a subsim with good/great graphics and sounds, coupled with great AI, realistic physics and ship modeling, and enough random elements in the campaign to keep it interesting and replayable. It's a big task but that's what it takes to create a modern "Aces of the Deep". |
I think that sums it up in a nutshell pretty much |
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R Hardman
Joined: 31 May 2001
Posts: 805
Location: 29 Palms, Ca.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| NeonSamurai wrote: | | Neal Stevens wrote: | | I think most players want a subsim with good/great graphics and sounds, coupled with great AI, realistic physics and ship modeling, and enough random elements in the campaign to keep it interesting and replayable. It's a big task but that's what it takes to create a modern "Aces of the Deep". |
I think that sums it up in a nutshell pretty much |
Right on the money Neal.  AI makes the game, graphics is what keeps it "alive" and helps in the immersion. Why else would everyone tweak and drive for the hi-res mods in SH2 which has nothing to do with the way the AI worked. I switch between 800x600x16 and 32 bit in SH2 since my system is slow and just that makes a world of difference. Can't wait to see what SH3 has to offer! Hopefully the programmers can sum the graphics and AI all up in a subshell NeonSamurai. |
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tokmarkOL
Joined: 07 Jul 2002
Posts: 18
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I think most players want a subsim with good/great graphics and sounds, coupled with great AI, realistic physics and ship modeling, and enough random elements in the campaign to keep it interesting and replayable. It's a big task but that's what it takes to create a modern "Aces of the Deep".
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Thank You Neal! These are the words we want to hear. I hope the DEV-Team has read it as well!!! |
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Gollard
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 165
Location: Dublin Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Hi all,
Im not sure if anyone here plays or has Hidden and Dangerous II ?
I finished the campaign, but in one of the missions, i cant remember exactley wich mission it is, but there is a sub that you can actually get into, and move around the whole interior, it looks really cool, the way the its modeled.
So i would say that it will be done in silent hunter III, but dont hold me to it, or get anyoed if it isnt in the finally release he he he |
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