[subsimmer]

PLEASE !
Do not use empty maltese crosses or other bitmap fillers !
use the official rank lapels, shoulder boards, breast eagles, insignia, and official medal representations in this new sim. Damn the swastika should not offend anyone, Jew or Gentile alike. It's a part of history that noone wants to forget anyhow, so let's get it right this time shall we ?

No more excuses on how it may affect other countries (I hear it's outlawed in Russia). At least leave it mod-able so the correct themes can be imported into it. This may sound abrupt but if I'm (or anyone else for that matter) is going to pay $50-$60 bucks on this newbie, make it as authentic as hell - subs, ships, crew, flags, and uniforms.

[wolfy]

I agree. There should be a content adjuster or something. Where you can change certain things like whether the swastikas will be shown or if you will see blood and hear bad words. We can't have another dumbed down game!

[mog]

Swastikas are generally not included because they are banned in Germany. However, this is easily avoided by a small patch available for download soon after release. Many games have done this in the past and it solves the problem.

[wolfy]

I find it a little silly that people would ban swastikas. I understand that what the Nazis did was terrible. Believe me (I am actually about 3/5 Jewish ( don't ask how, long story)). As long as people aren't hanging up swastika flags and whatever, I don't see a problem. Besides, I suppose the neo-nazi skin head types graffeti it all around the place anyhow. Atleast that's what I have seen in Spain. I don't know how different it could be in Germany. Ironic really, being that there's probably not many Jews left in Germany anyhow. :nope:

[Thomsen]

Whoa, guys, let's not get worked up about this aspect of historicity. It was a long time ago, but many are still offended by the swastika symbol. The best bet is for Ubi to offer a generic Iron Cross as a substitute for the swastika. The same is done in other games, such as Steel Panthers:World at War. Give players the choice of symbols, so as to make all this a non-issue.
We should be more concerned about technical realism rather than issues like this. Leave this one alone, please.

[mog]

[NeonSamurai]

Either way even if they dont include it im sure it would be easy to put in the real german naval flag of the time period

[Seeadler]

Swastikas are not generally banned in Germany. There are paragraphs in our law to specifies how to proceed with swastikas in the public.
(those paragraphs comes from the allied control council after the war)

If they are used as historical teaching material or in an artistic form such as movies documentary films, WWII picture books etc., they are permitted. Games do not fall here yet under these artistic works and therefore the representation of swastikas in games were seen as public spreading of nazi-material which is forbidden.

[Drebbel]

In Holland the swastika and the Hitler greeting are forbidden by law. This was decided by people/generation that were directly involved in the war. I respect that I can easily do without them. I am raised with the fact that it is bad taste to display these symbols.

Although I want a sim to be realistic as possible I do prefer a non-swastika game. That makes it easier to forget one is playing for the wrong side.

[Sniper_1]

All,

I agree that the flags/medals should be as historicaly accurate as possible, but the 'swastika' issue can be fixed with a patch/mod. Instead of a medal case to display your awards how about a uniform jacket a la X-Wing and F-19 Stealth Fighter (i'm really showing my age with that last one ). When you get an award it would show up as the medal and the 'official' document, but instead of viewing the award in a medal case you see a shot of a German Navy jacket with the decorations as worn by your character (and you can see their rank...).

It might be good to have small animated historical clips showing Hitler/Donitz etc giving out awards, to add to the 'immersion' effect.

[Furia]

[Darkstream]

Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

Sanitising history is one of the best ways of ensuring that it is forgotten.

[cdragon]

Question for the people who live in nations that outlaw the display of the swastika: is this public display only, or any[/] display (public and private)? In other words, is it illegal to display a swastika in your home? Is just the mere [i]possession of a swastika illegal?

As of SH3, I think UBI will go with a purely business decision to issue the game without swastikas. But if they're smart, they'll allow users to modify the skins of ships and other objects, thus allowing modders to substitute the generic german symbols with the historic symbols, like the swastika.

In SH2, the easiest way to add a swastika is to make it your conning tower emblem. Your uboat then resembles the uboats from "The Incredible Mr. Limpet."

[Drebbel]

[Oesten]

SHII was a big hit in Germany, and SHIII will be also. For that reason UBI can't afford to fall foul of German law. There will be no swastikas in the stock game.

However, I didn't like the stock SHII menu screens which showed the Kreigsmarine flag and the Nazi stone eagle statue without the swastika - that was 'anti-historical'. Better not to display the flag or the eagle at all, or to display them in such a way that the fact that the swastika isn't there cannot be seen. For example, either make the flag very small, so you can't see the swastika, or show an 'office' flagpole (like they have in the Oval Office) with the flag draped round it so the swastika can't be seen.

Having a 'uniform' display instead of a medal case is a good idea! Here again the swastikas on the breast eagle, cap eagle, the Knight's Cross, and the German Cross could be made too small to see. The biggest one is on the German Cross, but then a folded sleeve or some other device could be used to obscure the swastika on the medal.