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Orm
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 76
Location: Finland
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 Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| Beware, History has proven more than once that they are the ones that underestimate others that will get kick in their a... |
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Kapitan
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 5385
Location: essex england also st petersburg russia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: |
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in the old days of cold war submarines were seen as Expendable now days its not so, the more ships the better kilo should realy kill at least 6 to make a diffrence , after all there was 24 built only 11 remain.
The kilo nowdays is quite limited in what it can do, the russian ones cant go very deep or fast (same as all) and they are now getting fairly old so today id say one shot one kill where as if it was akula it be at least 20. |
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Bill Nichols
Joined: 14 Mar 2001
Posts: 2657
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Kapitan wrote: | | in the old days of cold war submarines were seen as Expendable .... |
 Maybe in the USSR... |
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Kapitan
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 5385
Location: essex england also st petersburg russia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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The were bill why do you think they launched over 250 whiskeys? not because they had some spear cash it was simply because they knew that they couldnt comete with the west's tech so to get round it they built up in numbers.
The could affored to "loose a few" |
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TLAM Strike
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 4866
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Nichols wrote: | | Kapitan wrote: | | in the old days of cold war submarines were seen as Expendable .... |
Maybe in the USSR... |
Note the look on Bill's face. Thats the "Their telling me this now" look. 
| Kapitan wrote: | | The could affored to "loose a few" |
... dozen...  |
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Kapitan
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 5385
Location: essex england also st petersburg russia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Few dozen my my TLAM you are generous personaly id have said almost the lot ! |
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Linton
Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 344
Location: Tunbridge wells,UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I am sure that any Iranian Kilo sent into combat will be on a one way mission.They will all be wearing twelve pairs of underpants and expecting the truckload of virgins to be waiting for them in the afterlife.An adcap will be their bus ticket. |
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Takeda Shingen
Joined: 14 Mar 2001
Posts: 841
Location: Allentown, Pa, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I would not question the Kilo class. It remains a capable, if not particularly state-of-the-art threat. What I would question are the Iranian crews and tactics of attack. In the hands of the Russians or Chinese, I would be concerned. In the hands of the Iranians, I am not so worried. |
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Skybird
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 4131
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Kurushio wrote: | | Thanks for the quick reply Bill. So would that be considered a success or failure for the Kilo...cost effective wise? At what point would a Kilo be considered a "good investment"? If it took out a FFG then got destroyed...is that good for the Kilo? |
Your answer may depend on whether you are part of it's crew onboard, or not. |
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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| Takeda Shingen wrote: | | I would not question the Kilo class. It remains a capable, if not particularly state-of-the-art threat. What I would question are the Iranian crews and tactics of attack. In the hands of the Russians or Chinese, I would be concerned. In the hands of the Iranians, I am not so worried. |
Before the revolution, the Iranian sub crews trained here in the states in the same places our sub crews trained.   |
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Takeda Shingen
Joined: 14 Mar 2001
Posts: 841
Location: Allentown, Pa, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| LuftWolf wrote: | | Before the revolution, the Iranian sub crews trained here in the states in the same places our sub crews trained. |
Oh, so they recieved the same training. Then we are doomed. All of us. All.
Or, more likely, they leared how to dive and surface their boat, how to achieve neutral bouyancy, etc. I am fairly confident that the finer points of submarine warfare were not discussed with them. Besides that training is near 30 years old. Naval warfare has changed a lot since then. |
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Kapitan
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 5385
Location: essex england also st petersburg russia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Tak has a point, we have trained other crews here in the UK i know of some indians that have trained here but they are not taught what we are taught, we can safely say iran has no proper training for her crew. |
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LuftWolf
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1872
Location: Free New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: |
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My point was more about geo-politics.   |
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Wildcat
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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if they can figure out nuclear physics as they claim to have done, and are able to operate supercavitation torpedoes as they claim to have done, I'm damned sure they can figure out how to operate sonar in littoral water environments off their own coasts.
To echo someone elses statements in here, do not underestimate anyone. Underestimation is the prime ingredient needed to receive a big arse whooping. |
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