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Torpedo firing in WW1
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Deamon



Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deamon wrote:
Yes i can, but checked and that info is not there, i read that info during my investigation about early sub and early torpedoes.


Do you remember the sources ?

Quote:
The complete site is big,


How big ?

Quote:
anyway i can send the 3 chapters about early torpedoes if you want, but they are from 1865/1900.


Well, ok. Will still be interesting. Check your PM.

Quote:
I will upload the complete site a new time when have time to add 4 subs i have not worked yet.


Notifie me please when it's up again.

Quote:
Yes, take a lot of job, i need to rework the game, make the mod and plus made that tutorial wich is a complete guide to manual shooting.


You still interested in developing more of such stuff ?

Quote:
May a language mode, when you input the signal for giro angle, you make a perturbation of the stability of the system.

The system attempt to correct this perturbation or “error” and return to the stabilized zero “error”.

How the system attempt to correct or eliminates this induced chage, we can call it "error", because it is to be "fixed" or eliminated.

So you put the new zero condition into a new position, then the torp will turn up to reduce it error to zero, this happens when it reach the new course or new zero condition.

In early time i soupose it was mechanical, later the torps used syncronic motors and servos to actuate rudder.

Syncronic motors are a kind of twin motor, we call here some times, “motor of error” where the rotor is ino a stator with 3 coils separated 120degrees, wich generated a stable position of the rotor. Both rotors and both staors are conected.

The position of the first rotor is duplicated by the second rotor, If you move the rotor 1, the rotor 2 make the same.

It was used to duplicate a position, in example the tool to inpit this signal was abandoned, and this kind of motors was used to input electrically the giro angle.
You turn a knob atached to a motor 30 degrees and it turn a motor into the torpedo same 30 degrees wich turns the giro.

This kind of motors are used to repoduce in example a rudder or dive plane position into an instrument.

Not a scientist explanation but there are not too much information about those early systems, specially those mechanicals and with servo asustance, may be due they was war secrets in those days.


Thanks for the great info. Do you remember the sources ?

Deamon
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Redwine



Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deamon wrote:

Deamon wrote:
Yes i can, but checked and that info is not there, i read that info during my investigation about early sub and early torpedoes.


Do you remember the sources ?


I was checking yesterday, i have lot of info stored, may be i dont sore it, because my interest was to arrive just up to WW1, and this kind of torps was from WW1.

May be the info was added on some forum by some one.

I remeber what i read, the info says, the giro inside the torp was needed to be enrgized, then, the giro was "perturbed" ormay be "disturbed" in english.... using a Tool, wich was introduced by the side of the back section of the torpedo tube.
The operator has a dial to know how much angle he is turning the tool to indice it into the giro system.

Later it was done by the use of a "repeater motor" or "Syncronich motor" i dont know how it is called in english, from the outside, and this "error" or "induced change" is introduced into the torp by wires, wich was connected when the crew introduce the torp into the tube or some thing, and arrive to a "repeater motor" as happens with a rudder and its instrument, and this motor introduce the change in the giro system.

Later this was controlled direct by the TDC.


Deamon wrote:

Quote:
The complete site is big,


How big ?


I dont remember but was near to 100mb, but it contains some history of U-552, another biography of Kpt. Topp, Kpt Langdsdorff and the Graff Spee, and the Theory of the Aquatic Ape.

I soupose it was put out of the web for the Kaptains biography, may be realted to a nazi site, just an ignorance, those Kaptains was the most far of nazis we can found in germany in that age, in example Kap. Topp was Admiral of the NATO after war.....

I will do a clean and let only the Subgenesis and Torpedogenesis



Deamon wrote:

Quote:
anyway i can send the 3 chapters about early torpedoes if you want, but they are from 1865/1900.


Well, ok. Will still be interesting. Check your PM.


Here the 3 chapters from the early torpedoes.....

http://rapidshare.de/files/12812597/sg10.zip.html

Remember some early planes are based on descritions more than on real plans wich are not abailable.


Deamon wrote:

Quote:
I will upload the complete site a new time when have time to add 4 subs i have not worked yet.


Notifie me please when it's up again.


Done, i need to have time.... i stored the site in Web easy ormat, wich stre a basic files and all the pictures you can have it at any place, i attempt to have all them into a unic folder, but i recent build a new computer, and i was thinking all pictures was inside that folder.
But not, i made many errors and some pictures are in some back-ups, i have thousands and thousands of submarine opictures stored.
It take many hours yesterday to rebuils those 3 torpedoes chapters.

I need to found free time to rebuild the complete site.



Deamon wrote:

Quote:
Yes, take a lot of job, i need to rework the game, make the mod and plus made that tutorial wich is a complete guide to manual shooting.


You still interested in developing more of such stuff ?


Nop...that is all needed to shot a torp in many ways, manual with TDC, manual with broken TDC, completely manual calculations with no TDC (WW1 style), dont need more.
Plus it it lot of job, take moths.


Deamon wrote:

Thanks for the great info. Do you remember the sources ?

Deamon


Look above, dont remember, but i am looking into my stores. My intemption was not touch WW1, because there start up to be a lot of many diferent models, is a neverending job, and too much for me, and plus there are many info around there.

The lack of info is on early and ancient submarines.

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Redwine



Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 1143
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here an interested info :

The first torpedoes with gyro system capable to change course after firing was selled to USA.

From :

A History of the Torpedo The Early Days
By Geoff Kirby


"Introduction of the Gyroscope

In 1895 came the first significant improvement to the torpedo since its invention. Whitehead introduced the gyroscope for azimuth control using the type invented by an Austrian, Ludwig Obry. In this device a 1.75 lb. wheel some 3in. in diameter was held in gimbals with its axis along that of the torpedo. The wheel was spun up to maximum speed 2,400 r.p.m. by means of a pretensioned spring. The wheel reached this speed before the weapon left the tube so that the torpedo followed the aimed-for track in the water irrespective of the impulsive forces acting on hitting the water. This greatly improved the overall accuracy of firing and with the new device fitted it was possible to fire to an accuracy of ~ thus enabling a beam-on target to be hit at a range of about 7,000 yards-except that torpedoes at that time had ranges not exceeding 1,000 yards.

This clearly provided a considerable impetus for torpedo designers to increase performance. The original Obry gyroscope wheel only contained a maximum of 20ft. - lbs. of energy. This had the effect of allowing the gyro to topple after an inconveniently short time of running. The toppling was induced by the fact that the gyroscope gimbals were required to directly operate a rudder servo control. Whitehead soon introduced an intermediate servo however which greatly reduced the forces acting on the gimbals and the way was then opened up for long range weapons.

The version of the Obry gyroscope supplied to the United States was provided with an angling gear which enabled the weapon to change course after firing, thus giving greater flexibility in the firing procedure. This refinement was introduced into the Royal Navy in 1900.

The turn of the century saw a radical change in torpedo design with the introduction of the heated, or steam torpedo. This is therefore an opportune time to study the torpedo development of nations, such as the United States, who did not adopt the Whitehead compressed air method of propulsion."



Here say Ludwig Obry was the inventor of the gyro system for torpedoes, but Petrovich at Russia made the same at same time, same year.

Initially, the gyroscopic stablilization was done for straight ahead torpedo runs, but quickly a two improvements was don, one was the servo rudder control, and the second was the capability to change course after firing.
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