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Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| CB.. wrote: | the fascinating thing for me after re reading the chapter in the book dealing with WW1 submarine warfare, is that sub versus sub combat was a common factor in the war, which in terms of a simulation offers up a whole extra dimension ... allmost a cold war scenario with subs poking around each other trying to gain the upper hand...genuine sub against sub combat (not really viable/realistic in a ww2 sub sim?)
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Yes ASW was the main purpuose of the british submarines in WWI that's why they build an ASW optimized submarine the R class.
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the R1 makes yu wonder what went wrong if a sub that advanced was constructed and brought into service in WW1 ..why it took till the last few months of WW2 for anything even remotely as adavnced to come into service again.....sounds to me if they had a few stolen R1's with WW2 batteries and motors the german u-boat force would have ruled the waves.. sometimes it really makes yu wonder quite what was going on.. |
I don't think the R class was that mutch more advanced,it was rather optimized for the ASW purpuose,it purpuose was to operate mainly submerged.So the the hull form was optimized for that purpuose and the propulsion as well.So they used up the inner space for bigger e-motors and bigger battery to the expense of the diesel engines.The design was best suited for ASW and would perform bad in the ASuW role due to it's poor surface speed and surle way bader surface stability properties.
So it's not a miracle of technological advance but rather a matter of purpuose optimization, a specializied sub so to say.And that was surly also the reason why they abandoned this subs so quickly.
The reason why only at the end of WWII sutch subs appear was a tactical one,since the german submarines both in WWI and WWII was supposed for the ASuW role and that means the submarine must rely on a superiour speed and speed endurance to be able to overtake slower merchant ships to bring it selve in a possition that makes an attack possible and this it can only have when it runs most of the time on the surface that's why Dönitz didn't wanted to give up this approach as long as possible.Sutch typs like XXI was just an urgent neccessety and although it has a fare greater submerged speed and endurance than the other typs it still was very limited in it's overtaking capeabilities couse at high speeds the betterys are empty in a few hours no matter how mutch you cramp the sub with them.So even with that submarine typs it was generaly a disadvantage to operate submerged,If you would have to operate with a typ XXI than you must have been already in a more or less favoureable possition when you detect a convoy to be able to approatch(sprint) submerged,attack and than still want to have enough battery capacity to escape a sub hunt that could take many hours or even several days,so your success would relay on the guidence from your HQ that sends you all the reccon data early enough so that you can travel to an advantageous attacking possition soon and slow enough,you would have to relay on wolfpack operations to be able to catch a convoy and the speed endurance disadvantages was been trying to counterbalance with a higher offensive power of the typ XXI like more tubes and mutch shorter reloading times,the possibilitie to make TMA fully submerged(without using the periscope).In the second half of the WWII a typ VII/IX could do only little damage when it could manage to attack a convy.So usualy one or two ships and the loss rate was very high.In turns for a typ XXI it would be more difficult to come close enough to a convoy to be able to attack but when it manages to sneak in to a convoy then adios muchachos.
Many new weaponsystems was under development like wire guided torpedos and new contermeasures that even include missiles that was installed backwards directed and would have been fired at destroyers that was inbound for a deapth charge attack.If i remmember right the rockets was supposed to move underwater so that's where the supercavitating rocket develpment has startet.But the war was over before all this could be employed.
The speed and undurance was only been solved by introducting nuclear propulsion systems.As far as i know the german leader ship did even planed to develope nuclear propulsions for it subs.
Germany could have build sutch subs like the R typ and other nations as well but at least for germany they wouldn't have been of use couse the main purpuose for german subs was always the ASuW role.
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gotta love the idea of the M1 tho...aiming that 12 inch gun whilst submerged then coming to decks awash to fire the thing and diving again
allmost as much atmosphere available as a torpedo launch |
Yeah i love this idea too  And actualy strive to include some of sutch subs.Would make quite a different play.Would be surly funny as hell to make hit and run coastile raids or wolfpack operations together with fleet submarines.  In a fictive scenario of course. |
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2019
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Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:57 am Post subject: |
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@2019
Check your PM.
Deamon |
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Sulikate
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 610
Location: Goiania, Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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hey Deamon, just sent you a PM, check your mailbox  |
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2019
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 596
Location: Polish dude in Amsterdam
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Wow Amazing.
It's been now a year i'm part of this project.
Still going fine, no way i'll quit.  |
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Deamon
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 2302
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | Wow Amazing.
It's been now a year i'm part of this project.
Still going fine, no way i'll quit. |
mamories huh ?
Chrismas approaching.
Deamon |
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2019
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 596
Location: Polish dude in Amsterdam
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Deamon wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | Wow Amazing.
It's been now a year i'm part of this project.
Still going fine, no way i'll quit. |
mamories huh ?
Chrismas approaching.
Deamon |
What a great oppertunity to improve modeling and texturing skills, now soon the boats will need to be animated this will be also great fun to work around and master the skills. |
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