[2019]

[Kpt Lothar]

Mike, what do you think about OGRE?

[Deamon]

Yeah, what do you think about OGRE ?

[Kpt Lothar]

according to network engine:

http://www.rakkarsoft.com/

great, free network engine; everyone recommend it

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

i could never get OGRE to compile properly on a Macintosh... and seeing that it would just be the rendering component to a complete game engine, i never went very far with it in Windows either...

you would have to integrate your own (or your choice of) of networking, physics (if you neaded it), and sound libraries in order to have a full fledged development platform from which you could begin writing your sim... a lil too much for me...

all that said... the demos that come with OGRE are pretty cool... so, if you are inclined to do the work necessary, it may be worth while...


ok... here's the ones i'm familiar with to date... the pros and cons that i've found so far... click name to go to web site)

the easiest - 3D RAD
once the basic concept of how RAD does things is gotten (easy to pick up) this is the easiest 3D game development system i've seen so far that might be capable of a 3D naval sim... uses directx format models or it's own internal format... built in level editor... inexpensive...
object oriented in nature... i almost got my sim done in this,except for...
1-limited DX6 ImmediateMode based graphics made effects a work around proposition... lightmapping, shadows, environment mapped objects... al the things you might want are gonna be a pain and not look as good as you'd want after all that work...
2-peer to peer networking is workable, but is realistically limited to 8 players at most and no timing sync...
integer based maths system...


next easiest - Blitz3D
if you can program in Visual Basic, then Blitz3D is gonna seem really easy to use as your game dev system... almost anything can be done with it... it is a gateway to DirectX... and can link and use standard dlls... the only really bad thing i found was that it was a throwback to the old procedural coding style of QuickBasic... no object oriented capabilities which i find essential for large scale projects...
no shadow system was also one of the drawbacks, although someone did make an addon... but if you don't need that, lightmapped stuff comes in easily and looks great in Blitz3D... networking libs are avail too...

BlitzMax, new object oriented version of Blitz just premiered, and the 3D module will follow in a few months... definitely then this will be worth taking a harder look at...

a lil harder, but AAA (as they say) - Torque
once you get the hang of what it's doing, this one is pretty cool... the best multiplayer code (integrated) around... built in editors (great terrain ed) and a built in lightmapper... and really nice looking output... that's why they call it a AAA game engine...

... but you first have to understand what is going on, and that's gonna be where most of the frustration for a lot of people will lie.

Torque comes as a full FPS game, and there is a lot already done for you... an overwhelming lot... and that means there's a lot you've gotta learn... and there is no big reference manual to learn it all from... you're going to have to search for what you need to know, and knowing what you need to know is half the battle...
but the situation has gotten a lot better than when i first licensed it, and the great book by Ken Finney opens it up to you in plain, straightforward terminology... you can code the engine in c++ for any special stuff you need, but i will probably stay with the scripting interface as it gaurantees me cross platform Linux, OSX,Win apps...
scripting is similar to c++ in syntax... easy enough to pick up...

relatively inexpensive ($100 indie license)... big active user forum... great net code... great looking terrains and skies are the pluses...

the cons are... no dynamic shadows... (you might need the extra cost light pack to make it look really good), and if you want shaders and bleeding edge bump mapped pixel effects, you gotta get the SHADER Engine version (at extra cost) which is still under development... and yeah, the large amount of stuff you're going to have to search for and learn.

i'm almost sold on Torque... if i can just get the models to look as realistic as what i'm using now (below), i may go this route...

also worth considering
Dark Basic - verry similar to Blitz, in spite of what some would say... in fact, it has more capabilities that Blitz at the built in command level... but some of the stuff just plain doesn't work, but the devs are constantly fixing the bugs... also, the syntax of the BASIC it uses may take a lil getting used to... not bad if you like procedural BASIC like coding.

irrlicht - c++ object oriented... state of the art graphics... i don't think it has it's own network code... free... liberal licensing... i can't say much about it, i've only done a lil coding with it... but it seems to work...

not worth considering (my opinion only)
3D Game Studio/A6
while i wanted this one to work out (it's level editor and built in lightmapper make such pretty levels)... the delay in getting bugs fixed (there are quite a few), the poor performance when using advanced graphics (shaders) effects, the problematic networking, the shadows that don't work right and slow down the system... the juvenile mentalities (my opinion again) that frequent the forums there, forums which you will need to use, seeing as there is no current manual (they are working on the online version) and fixes and workarounds are all posted there... all this combines to make 3DGS a costly waste of time, about $200 if you license the 'commercial' version (with limited networking - 4 players max- and physics - only one physics object- and other crippled aspects)... or worse, $800 (no restrictions on multiplayer and more physics objects) for their 'pro' version...

what i'm using now - 3Impact
simple straight forward c coding, (just like BASIC, except using c syntax and needing to be compiled)(i made my own object oriented framework since i like OOP)... or you can code it in Delphi (object oriented Pascal)... or you can use IBasic...
real, fast, working shadows... best i've seen anywhere, even on demos made with more expensive 'engines'...
integrated physics... everything can bounce off of or be stacked on everything else (if you want)... it's all based on ODE (i think)...
pixel based bumpmapping and environment mapping...

these are what initially brought me over to 3Impact, the successor to 3D RAD... and so far, everything seems to work as advertised... everything is straight forward... and i'm getting some decent results, very decent when considering what i'm getting and the time put in...

this is the one i'm working with now on the sim... wish me luck

ok... that's it...

keep in mind... the above is merely my opinions based on experience with these things, and my limited knowledge as a programmer, modeller, texture artist, etc... therefore, it will be up to the individual developer to find the most 'comfortable' solution... one that he/she has no, or little trouble working with...

most of the above tools are capable of doing quite a bit, and are really limited only by the person using them... so what comes out is largely based on the person using it...

also, you are going to need tools to make textures, models, sounds, as well as being moderately skilled in making these... so the game engine is just one component in making a sim...

so... visit each site... get a demo or a demo of something made with each that is similar to, or shows some of what you want to do...

... and good luck.

i hope i've provided at least some help with my perspectives above.



--Mike

[Deamon]

Thanks for the great summary Mike. We are still in the proccess to determine whitch way to go for us.

Mike, is it possible to use the TOURQUE network lib with other engines like OGRE for example ?

Mike any experiance on the RakNet ?

Deamon

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

yes... the Torque network 'engine' is available as a separate license...

see HERE
it will wind up costing you more than a Torque license, but i think it's well worth it regardless... just log onto one of the demo online games people are developing, or try to find a Torque Realm Wars online session with a few players... you'll see what i mean...

sorry... no experience with RakNet...

--Mike

[Deamon]

Thanks Mike.

Interesting:

http://www.opentnl.org/

[2019]

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

2019... no... i've neglected shader programming for the most part so far... right now i only forsee using a decent bumpmapping (with specularity) and maybe a water shader...

... both of which are pretty stock on any advanced rendering system.

i can get in there and tweak the code to tailor it to my needs if need be though...

--Mike