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Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 1262
Location: NY USA
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 Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: It Lives!!! |
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ok... now that all the hooopla over that other  sim is starting to die down a bit... (actually, what i mean to say is that i've finally been able to tear myself away from it for a while to get some work done  ), it looks like i've found a decent game engine in my price arena, that looks like it will be able to handle most of the things i will be throwing at it, graphics wise mostly... so that finally, my obsession can be completed and look the way i want it to...
the new engine needs to be coded in c, and there's a lot that has to be done before any large project is attempted with it... but it appears to be solid and capable.
i'm in the process of writing a framework to code the sim in... and have already done a bit along those lines... but first a few screenshots...
early test renderings of an Ethan Allen class ballistic missile sub underwater...
close up of the sail showing self shadowing
the new engine allows me to add self shadowing, specular bumpmapping, the biggees as far as graphics is concerned, and what i've been chasing for months...
everything can be physics enabled (i doubt if i will be taking advantage of that too much) and there is a client server networking capability for multiplayer...
i've still gotta write up a decent looking bit of code for a realistic looking ocean... something close to what i've seen while on bridge watch while onboard those uboats... and a few more lines of code for each of the classes that will describe the objects in the sim... so, it's gona take a lil while, but it's still alive and kicking...
--Mike |
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Seeadler
Joined: 14 Mar 2001
Posts: 1992
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| what's the name of the new engine? |
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Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 1262
Location: NY USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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3Impact... http://www.3impact.com/
there's more to it than meets the eye... at first glance...
--Mike |
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Mulder
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| WOW |
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Dust
Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 320
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:40 am Post subject: |
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hi 
please have a look at open source engines too. especially http://www.delta3d.org/
i really hope you dont use a proprietary engine!
at the moment i´m helping at http://www.gcblue.com/ with a taiwan scenario, help is always welcome  |
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cowman1009
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 84
Location: Groton, CT
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:56 pm Post subject: When? |
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Looks awesome! When can we expect to see it?  |
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Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 1262
Location: NY USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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thx guys... glad you like em... the finals will look even better...
sorry Cowman... no projected release dates...i've already defaulted on this, and have no desire to raise any false hopes... all i can say is that i'm working on it and it will be out as fast as i can get it done...
Dust - i've looked at this engine before when i was searching for one... i have a big problem with open source stuff and the various licensing requirements of the many different component libs that are usually required to build with these... i plan for a commercial release, and don't want to get bogged down with compliance issues the various licensing requirements require... LPGL is good, but is is not free from restrictions, and some of the modules i think require compliance with the more restrictive GPL license...
also, i am not using .net tools for anything at the moment, and really am not ready to delve into it...
i think that i've found a game engine that i can afford, and that gives me the graphics potential i've been searching for... i'm probably going to stick with this for the time being, with my sights set on migrating over to Torque once their shader engine is completed and the lighting pack for it is released...
you see, i need the capability to include the eyecandy stuff... per pixel normal mapping... working shadows... my game/sim is not a pure simulation... there are elements of a first person type game that sort of mandates that it look a lil like DOOM3 or HL2... or as close to SH3 as i can comfortably get.
hey... i've also been keenly aware of the Global Conflict Blue Project... looks really decent.. good luck with the development... which part are you working on...
--Mike |
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cowman1009
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 84
Location: Groton, CT
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:56 am Post subject: |
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No hurry....SHIII will be keeping me busy for quite some time now, but so far that looks great; keep up the good work  |
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Sheppard
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 369
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:18 am Post subject: Re: It Lives!!! |
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Well Mike, hope you get this working and out the door, Sub Command
and Dangerous Waters don't appear to be my cup of tea, I do like the
more action oriented side of Silent Hunter III.
Anyway, once you settle on an engine, don't change the engine in
midstream; that's what's kept Duke Nukem Forever in development...
forever, they kept changing the engine every time something new
came out...and kept going back to square one... |
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Dust
Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 320
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense wrote: |
Dust - i've looked at this engine before when i was searching for one... i have a big problem with open source stuff and the various licensing requirements of the many different component libs that are usually required to build with these... i plan for a commercial release, and don't want to get bogged down with compliance issues the various licensing requirements require... LPGL is good, but is is not free from restrictions, and some of the modules i think require compliance with the more restrictive GPL license... |
which lgpl restrictions you mean?
as i know they only use lgpl because | delta3d wrote: | http://www.delta3d.org/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=719
Keep in mind that it can't be GPL or a commercial license. We're looking for a LGPL or similar license which would allow for redistribution and use in a commercial application. |
| Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense wrote: |
also, i am not using .net tools for anything at the moment, and really am not ready to delve into it... |
hmm i found nowhere the info, also not in the downloadable files, anything about .net, they are doing it platform independent. m$ just calls his new visual studio with .net included. the nasa world wind uses sadly .net :down:
| delta3d wrote: |
http://www.delta3d.org/index.php?topic=about
Currently, Delta3D is developed and tested on Windows XP using Microsoft Visual Studio .NET (7.1) and Fedora Core 3 using gcc 3.4.2. All the underlying dependencies are cross-platform as well, so just about any platform should be compatible with some modifications to the source (only Win32 and Linux are supported at the moment). |
| Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense wrote: |
i think that i've found a game engine that i can afford, and that gives me the graphics potential i've been searching for... i'm probably going to stick with this for the time being, with my sights set on migrating over to Torque once their shader engine is completed and the lighting pack for it is released...
you see, i need the capability to include the eyecandy stuff... per pixel normal mapping... working shadows... my game/sim is not a pure simulation... there are elements of a first person type game that sort of mandates that it look a lil like DOOM3 or HL2... or as close to SH3 as i can comfortably get.
hey... i've also been keenly aware of the Global Conflict Blue Project... looks really decent.. good luck with the development... which part are you working on...
--Mike |
http://www.openscenegraph.org/ is used in http://csp.sourceforge.net/ http://www.delta3d.org/ http://www.gcblue.com/ http://openbirds.sourceforge.net/
about the graphic abilities of osg have a look at http://www.openscenegraph.org/osgwiki/pmwiki.php/Screenshots/Screenshots
and http://csp.sourceforge.net/wiki/ScreenShots044 3d cockpit layout: every instrument is a 3d model, by Lologramme (work in progress)
delta3d also is developing a level editor http://www.delta3d.org/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=12&showtopic=538
i mean, yes its not ready now, but because of the support of the us forces i m sure they will develop it to a good product, which they also can use for all their training stuff.
i dont want to force you todo something, i just dont understand your decision.
we are working on a taiwan scenario. i need to get order of battle and so. we are also looking for free modells which we can import. will need some time.
first really contact with open source combat simulator was Combat Simulator Project (CSP) http://csp.sourceforge.net/wiki/
hope you have success with your project
kind regards |
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Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 1262
Location: NY USA
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 9:29 am Post subject: |
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i considered going this route, and i appreciate the time you've taken
to forward the info above...
this is typical of some of the things that i've considered when deciding
to go the route i currently am on...
[1]
| Quote: | LPGL and its usage in another application
ethan
New User
Hi there,
latley I was thinking about using a LGPL licensed php class in one commercial product I'm developing and after reading th LGPL license ( http://opensource.org/licenses/lgpl-license.php ) I have some doubts.
The most important thing is that it appears to me that if I do use that piece of software whatever mod I do it must remain as LGPL open source.
Does this mean that the whole application I do work on must be open source?... or just the LGPL class I'm talking about?
thanks all 
BigDave
Senior Member
Is it a part of a library, or would it be a part of your program?
If it is a library, then the library only is LGPL, but whatever changes that you make must also be LGPL.
If you are placing the code into your program, then your entire program must be LGPL or compatable.
If you make a change to the class, it is a derivative work, and it is still protected by the original author's copyright and license. This applies no matter what license they chose to use.
There are some interesting rules around software copyright and code that is not, in and of itself, executable, such as header files. I suspect that this would all be even more complicated by the fact that php is interpreted instead of compiled.
Another option would be to contact the author, and offer them payment to license it to you under another license.
...
...
There are some solutions for that, like the omnipresent Zend encoder, ionPHP encoder, or others free like turk MM cache. So in the event of having the comercial product with source compiled/encrypted, this would also be a problem as it goes versus the open source LGPL policy...
...
...
Perhaps the best think I can do is contact with the author as you stated, or do my own class (more time consuming thoug...)
oh, and about the class, that would just be a library the main program would use.
BigDave
Senior Member
I think you are correct, the best plan would be to get a commercial license or write your own version.
The rights holder set their "price" to use their work, so you either agree to the terms, or you do your own thing.
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[2] take a look over here... http://opensource.org/licenses/lgpl-license.php
of special note... read this...
| Quote: | | if you distribute copies of the library, whether gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that we gave you. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. If you link other code with the library, you must provide complete object files to the recipients, so that they can relink them with the library after making changes to the library and recompiling it. |
and this...
| Quote: | This license, the GNU Lesser General Public License, applies to certain designated libraries, and is quite different from the ordinary General Public License. We use this license for certain libraries in order to permit linking those libraries into non-free programs.
When a program is linked with a library, whether statically or using a shared library, the combination of the two is legally speaking a combined work, a derivative of the original library. The ordinary General Public License therefore permits such linking only if the entire combination fits its criteria of freedom. The Lesser General Public License permits more lax criteria for linking other code with the library. |
and goes on to specify...
| Quote: | 5. A program that contains no derivative of any portion of the Library, but is designed to work with the Library by being compiled or linked with it, is called a "work that uses the Library". Such a work, in isolation, is not a derivative work of the Library, and therefore falls outside the scope of this License.
However, linking a "work that uses the Library" with the Library creates an executable that is a derivative of the Library (because it contains portions of the Library), rather than a "work that uses the library". The executable is therefore covered by this License. Section 6 states terms for distribution of such executables.
When a "work that uses the Library" uses material from a header file that is part of the Library, the object code for the work may be a derivative work of the Library even though the source code is not. Whether this is true is especially significant if the work can be linked without the Library, or if the work is itself a library. The threshold for this to be true is not precisely defined by law. |
and these are only excerpts of the license...
| Quote: | | Delta3D's modular design integrates other well-known Open Source projects such as Open Scene Graph(OSG), Open Dynamics Engine(ODE), Character Animation Library (CAL3D), and OpenAL, integrating them in an easy-to-use API. MORE |
| Quote: | Licensing
Delta3D is released under the GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL). The underlying modules may have their own licensing, but are at the minimum, considered Open Source and are freely distributable. |
now... do i seriously want to get involved in the quagmire of figuring out the implications of using various pieces of libraries and code modules, each with their own accompanying licensing restrictions...
[3]
what advantages would i gain over using delta3 over the 3Impact... seriously, i am at the point where i can still make change to the engine (as long as it is fairly organized)... my code base is a pretty abstracted class of objects that are not directly tied (ok, 90% not directly tied) to the underlying game engine...
give me a good reason why i would go the Delta3 route... i am still of an open mind on this...
--Mike |
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Dust
Joined: 06 Jul 2003
Posts: 320
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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some months ago i found 3impact and thought its a nice engine at a good price
if it does what you need in a proper way i dont see a need for change, especially if you are not directly tied to 3impact.
the big reason which speaks in my eyes for delta3d is that i think they develop it to cutting edge. the mention of an unreal ed compareable editor and the pics remembered me to americasarmy and its supported by the different us forces.
a maybe reason could be, they support you like some hollywood productions for their own marketing and pr, depends what story you want to tell in your game, something like a heroic afford to defend the usa would increase the possibility. btw they are also hiring
maybe you talk with them about some cooperation or if you can use delta3d for the way you want/need to use it. asking dosnt cost anything.
about the license, hmmmmm not sure about it. i think it depends on how the libaries are used, but best to ask them directly also about maybe other licenses they use in delta3d. |
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2019
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 596
Location: Polish dude in Amsterdam
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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That engine is even pretty nice, tho.
cool demo shows a lot of potential.
What about the skydome textures?
the current look toonish.
if you like i could send you some.
they are 2800-1400 px jpeg.
i only don't know whos their author and legal stuff.
i did get them once from a skilled 3d artist. |
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