[AS]

Hi All,

I´d like to point out that the Swastika discussion should take into account the fact that the symbol has different connotations for Europeans (especially Germans) and US citizens.

I´m under the impression things are getting mixed up here a bit. The Swastika flag seen on U-Boats etc. can´t be compared to any other nation´s flag like the Union Jack or Stars and Stripes.

The German flag has always been what it is today, black, red, gold.

The SWASTIKA flag on the other hand does not represent GERMANY but NAZI GERMANY respectively THE THIRD REICH.


That DOES make a difference at least to people who know about the implications (mainly Europeans, of course), because pretending to be a German U-Boat commander sinking ships in WW2 is one thing (I personally can live with that as it is a simulation of a part of history), but pretending to be a Nazi in a game/simulation is just out of the question. Even if some/ maybe many, but certainly not all U-Boat commanders were Nazis (in an "active" and knowing way), it doesn´t follow that it is okay to "play" being one "just for fun". Considering what happened to millions of Jews, old and weak people, and Germans as well (priests, gays, resistence, soldiers not following certain orders etc.) it would be a slap into their faces to superficially have the Swastika in a game (we are talking about entertainment here!).

The Swastika mainly represents Hitler´s ideas about the superior race, it implies holocaust, concentration camps etc. I understand that a lot of Americans do not see these implications (why should they?) so it´s okay for them to have the Swastika for historical reasons. But you must also accept that for many Europeans it has a different meaning and I guess many people would feel very uncomfortable with it. I wouldn´t want to explain to a Jew how it feels to spend my spare time pretending to be one of the guys who wanted the holocaust.

You see it´s a question of AWARENESS rather than censorship.

It´s all a matter of cultural and historical background and values of course. The fuss they make about Janet Jacksons bare breast in that show might serve as an example: it´s a scandal for those Americans who are very much influenced by their Puritan tradition (Mr. Bush is THE Puritan personified, just consider his use of the word "evil"), while most people in Europe wouldn´t even notice and surely wouldn´t give a damn about it.

So in conclusion I think everybody should have their Swastika mod if they want it for historical accuracy, but you should understand that it definately has different meanings to different people, so the question shouldn´t be treated thoughtlessly.

Cheers, AS

[Drebbel]

Well said !

[Sniper_1]

Well said AS, i for one had no issue with how SH2 dealt with the problem. And the fact that any number of people on this forum can 'mod' swastica's (if you want them). We need to be cognesent of peoples sensitivities on this matter.

[Heibges]

1. Didn't the Kriegsmarine in WWII choose not to use the Hitler salute?

2. Didn't the captain of the Sharnhorste[sic] choose to commit suicide under the German Imperial Flag?

[AS]

The U-Boat crew referred to itself as "Freikorps Dönitz" which loosly translates like "personal army of Dönitz", they didn´t use the Hitler salute and always were priviledged (e.g. they had the best food available on thir patrols). Dönitz had a very close relationship to "his" commanders and crews. So you can see from this that the U-Boats had a somewhat different status.

Cheers, AS

[Oskar]

Hi Drebbel,

[Heibges]

It's in the Programming Standards of all large software publishers, that the swatsikas are removed from any game being shipped to Germany. Localization QA teams, at these companies, make sure they are all removed. You also have to remove any likenesses of Hitler.